Comments for 2006/2007 Surfski.info World Rankings at http://www.surfski.info , comment 0 to 20 out of 22 comments http://www.surfski.info Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:44:45 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1283 Howsit....herewith my 2cents worth(0.333333 Aud cents) Firstly well done Rob and his team at surfski.info. I had the good fortune of having dinner with Rob, Deano, Ash and the gang a couple nights before the WC. It is so good to see somebody so involved with every fascinating aspect of our beautiful sport as Rob is. I mean this guy is amazing!!! Every one of us should be very grateful for the advancements and benefit www.surfski.info has given our sport. Who would of thought that live coverage on Molokai would be a reality! What better way to keep an eye on the sport you love while either stuck in a work suit behind a pc or just unable to attend the race. There has been a lot of talk about this next song...maybe too much talk....oh wait sorry, that's Bono's line.... No seriously, guys like John McCarthy, Oscar, Deano have been chatting about the prospect of having and international circuit of races as well as international rankings....and that's just it!!! We always just TALK...Hats off to the guys that make things happen. Dean sent out a mail a year or so ago with a ranking after Perth and Tahiti. At least this gets the ball ROLLIN' We are never going to start off with a perfect blue-print but it at least gives us something to work on. Yes, I agree fully that it shouldn't result in a case of "the guy who travels the most wins" but there are ways to get around this like making best 4 of 6 races count. Maybe even give a bonus point to the winner of the 'big cash' races...where the depth of top paddlers might be greater. I mean a race such as the ARB WC here in Durbs, the racing is so tight between everyone in the top 10....1min between 4th and 10th pos. Weighting the bigger events with classier fields might be a plan? The ASP format seems like a good model to try follow, or at least look at. World rankings and a world series will only do good for our sport. Growth will be seen in every facet. We are very fortunate with the places and challenges our sport provides us with. There is no way I'd trade the smile on my face after a crankin' downwind race for cauliflower ears, ruck marks and a wallet full-o-cash. The core of our sport is the friends we get to make, conditions that test us and amazing venues we get to visit....and beers we get to share when our mate beats us;) Viva la kayak le Mer See you guys on the water ;D Daryl Bartho - Daryl Bartho Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:27:15 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1281 Sorry all I really stoked I finally made it onto the pointscore table. Deano - Dean Gardiner Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:42:45 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1280 Gidday All Firstly I want to take this opportunity to thank the organizers of the Durban event and of course Alan Burke from ARB. Great race, great venue, great organization great sponsor. (If you are interested in moving some business to Australia Al Im sure we can come up with an event). The comments have been great and they are well over-due in our sport. For the last 20 years or so we have been bashing around the globe doing events here and there with no real structure. The events have in most cases been fun and competitive. The one thing that has kept many of us in the sport is the chance to race in conditions that we experienced last week in Durban. Compare the vibe after the race last week with the vibe after the same race the year before and they are chalk and cheese. Most of the paddlers this year got off the water super stoked from a fun down wind session. Last year it was just another paddle in just another place. Sure there were people that struggled out there this year, sure there were people that were well outside of their comfort zones, but isnt that the point? The big thing for our sport is that it is different to any other type of paddle sport. If we wanted to find the fastest paddler, we would all race in circles around a lake. (I mean you would all race in circles around a lake because I wouldnt be there.) The sport would keep plodding along the way it is going and has been going for the last 20 years. The sport has to be seen as different to other paddling events and the World Cup events are the spearhead for that. It gives the new paddlers something to aspire to. Dave is right in what he says. The criterior for these events is to be around 2 hours or less and predominately downwind. If we had a flat day last week I know of at least half the top ten that would have little to no interest in competing in the race. They may have started but they wouldnt have competed with the same enthusiasm. Dont get me wrong I admire the guys that can bash the hell out of themselves in the flat and into headwinds, but seriously folks just how many of us really want to do that stuff. There are tonnes of races that cater for these guys. Surf ski paddling, the very name of our sport/craft suggests the type of race we should be doing. If someone struggles in the rough stuff then I am afraid that is bad luck. Your weekly time trials, training sessions and other races cater for those paddlers. Further more the advantages of downwind ocean race's continue. No wash riding (except in bound freighters) better for TV, excitement, better for spectators if the venue is suitable eg Perth. Now I know we are going to hear from the guys that believe that we should hold races in all conditions. Ask yourself what conditions do I like to paddle in? What gets my blood moving? What is the most fun? Now why would we create a sport that none of us want to do. On the subject of Molokai. This race is different to WC races. It is the big daddy of the sport and the event that most surf ski paddlers aspire to do before they die. It is similar to the Hawaiian Ironman for a triathlete , for a pro surfer the Eddie contest and for most amature sports the Olympics. Molokai has to be kept aside and hold its own place in the sport. To include it in WC competition will cheapen the event. This is not derogatory to any other events it just means that it is different.The PE-EL, Cape Point and other events are also fit into this category. I look foward to reading more about this subject. Good job boys on your 1 millionth. You guys are great the site is great and may we see many days on the water like 2 Sundays ago in Durbs. Deano - Dean Gardiner Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:26:33 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1273 In Cape Town, after the 2004 World Cup, it was agreed that the criteria for a World Cup race was quite simply, majority downwind (I think min 85%) and up to 2 hours long. It would seem a couple of races (not mentioning any names) are trying to grab WC status without meeting this criteria. If we want to stay true to what the sport really is then the organisers must submit an event proposal for sanctioning by a representative committee as a World Cup event. Otherwise, it will end up looking like a dog's breakfast! Another comment from the various top paddlers has been having a minimum prizemoney hurdle for an event. While you would have little argument that Perth is probably the best weekend of paddling you could ever have, it might struggle to keep up with the likes of Durban, Dubai and Hawaii in terms of prizemoney. Also, on last point. There is a risk that there are too many WC events (where has Hong Kong come from??) which means that those who do the most races get the highest rankings. This happened in professional surfing where the best surfers in the world were forced to compete in 1 foot onshore slop week after week because prizemoney determined where and when events would be held. The power then went back to the surfers and look how awesome the circuit is now. I would again refer to some sort of sanctioning and then, possibly, taking the best 4 of 6 results so the likes of Hank (and others who are doing kayaks etc) have the chance to finish number 1. PS: Good to see comments from Dawid, Oscar, Ash and Barry - from discussions with others, I think you would find the top 20 guys are in strong alignment on most of this stuff except maybe Hank and Tim who don't mind 2 hour grinds into the wind. - Dave Kissane Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:35:46 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1270 The 1st thing is for us to stop this 'World Cup' stuff. In all sports there is only 1 World Cup. It is madness. How can Durban & Perth be World Cup races. What does it mean for either the sponsor? We need a series, like the ASP - a set number of events that have points up for grabs towards the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. These are agreed and set for the calendar yr. We have the basis. Durban Perth Hawaii San Fran Poss - Hong Kong - or a 2nd race in C Town - or another international venue. Paddlers will then set their sights on becoming World Champion. Like surfer's do) They know the budget required to do it - against possible winnings. They then go for personal sponsorship to make it happen. Some sponsors (like artist managment the world over) would agree a % of earning sponsor deals (say Dawid get's $50 000 pa from Rip Curl etc etc). Some young kid might be backed by a syndicate - to 'create a world champ' with the backing of Epic (who want the hottest young rider in their new 8kg ski) etc etc. Running with this should be the constructors championship. Where points are awarded for the ski maker. This attracts huge prestige - and becomes part of ski marketing. This is easy guys. Lets do it. We need the race directors from the 'big 5' to meet - agree and set it up for 2008. New races would neet to pitch the commitee for inclusion - like F1. All on a much smaller scale sure - but the 100% correct thinking. This can be globally sponsored - and really kick ass. WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR? - GD Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:16:34 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1267 Strictly speaking the Molokai does not fit in with the other races. In that sense it is like the Monaco F1 Grand Prix, a totally insane GP that is my favourite race of the season. It adds colour, style and spectacle to the GP calendar. There is no way such a course would be considered today were it not for the great history of the race. My point I suppose is that the exception to the rule is far more interesting than keeping to the rules. For me the Molokai is THE race I must do one day. - Alain Jaques Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:20:46 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1266 "Saying the Molokai doesn't fit into the world series of ocean paddling is like saying the French Open Tennis or the Masters are too hard so we should drop them from the world tour????" Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discount Molokai at all; just pointing out that its double distance of all the other races which kind of makes it stand out. However, I do agree with Oscar on the profile of this race. It captures the imagination and really really tests you physically and mentally. Eventhough the only one I've done was hot, flat and brutal, personally I am more than happy with it counting towards the World Series. - DawidM Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:42:59 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1265 Personally I think what’s happening in ocean racing is great at present. As the above have said there is a way to go with it all. More races like Durban could build the sport……but the big thing is the sponsor’s $$. In Australia it is very hard to demand $$ against such high profile sports as AFL, Super 14s and the Cricket all taking big chunks of cash away from smaller sports!! I would hope Perth World Cup can be great also, with a big sponsor on board it allows for so much more, as could be seen at the ARB World Cup Durban. I agree with the fact that a variety of races should come into a world series. Molokai is definitely part of that scenario, it has an awesome history!! And you could say without races like that we would not be here discussing this right now?? I don’t think venues which will be 90 - 100% guaranteeing flat water should be included in a world series, I gave up kayaking 10 years ago; bring on challenging venues and races!! It’s hard for the top 10 paddlers to make all the races but with their support (hopefully with personal sponsors) and a bit of luck races like Perth, Molokai, Dubai can grow even further and gain a bigger slice of the sponsorship $$ I encourage as many paddlers as possible to support the Perth World Cup. Rottnest Island to Hillary’s first up this year guys, now that’s a good piece of ocean!! Ash Nesbit ;) - Ash Nesbit Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:40:26 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1260 I think the rankings are fair enough. You can only beat those who turn up on the day to race. The reality is that the elite SA paddlers are a committed bunch that are prepared and can afford (time & money) to travel. The challenge is to ensure that the elite paddlers from the other paddling nations are equally represented. The first step is to continue to grow the sport locally. Despite the great efforts by Dean Gardiner and other race promoters in Australia, we still get mediocre attendances from elite level paddlers at long distance ocean races. If we can't get them to attend local events on the East Coast, how will we ever get them to races in WA, South Africa, Hawaii, NZ, Tahiti or USA? Even when free flight tickets have been on offer in the past, only a handful turn up to contest. There are a variety of reasons why they don't turn up to local races: 1. Don't see any value in race entry fee. Why pay to paddle in an area they can do whenever they want for free? 2. Conflicting race / training schedules. Many are committed to surflifesaving events. eg. Carnivals and Nutri Grain series 3. Don't like long distance 4. Family commitments 5. Work commitments 6. Won't race if they know they won't win. 7. General apathy. Rather do something else on the weekend. Many have had years of racing in kayaking and surf carnivals and are just over it. I think if we can swell the numbers, we can attract the sponsors and increase prize pools. From there we will have an abundance of fully fit elite paddlers, that are better funded and want to mix it up with the best on the planet. I think we are headed in the right direction, with sites like this, new ski designs, local time trials etc. It is just going to take some time. I'd love to see the international contingent hit the Twenty Beaches in Sydney and a week later do the ski leg of the Coolangatta Gold (Surfers Paradise to Greenmount). Both are sanctioned by Australian surflifesaving and would be well attended. BTW - not meaning to take anything away from the guys who have been representing Australia in recent times. In my opinion, they would all be up there still even if we attracted the huge numbers from surflifesaving. - Martin Barnes Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:48:43 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1259 I agree with Dawid in that one race can not be a world camp any more. There are enough races around the world that are attracting series competitions to have a series of events to determine the best in the world. I personally am trying to get to as many of these as possible but from SA this is a mission! Its just sometimes to expensive with the exchange rates. The sport is growing and i believe one day i will live my dream of traveling to all the top international races as a proffessional paddler. Not anywhere near there yet but it will happen. Molikai will always be a major as the big O says and with the new sponsors involved there you will get good competition with the added prize money and more top paddlers to the event, weather it should be included, i am not sure, it does not fit the mold of a world cup race (30-35km) but it does have the history. This one will have lots of debate in the future!!! World tour here we come. Bring on the new age! Regards Barry Lewin - Barry Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:03:37 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1245 No age weighting in golf or tennis, but they do have senior divisions. When surf skiing has a senior devision, Oscar can be champ forever. - Keith Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:24:20 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1243 Dawid and all of you are correct in one way or another. I would say that that sport is at a transition now. Races like the Molokai will always be the one to win, like Dawid says one race doesn't make you world champion anymore, but in golf or tennis winning the British Open or Wimbledon is far great than any other tournament. Now paddling is getting to the stage where we don't only have the Molokai but other very important races that make the paddler the best in the world over any course. I think there are no weightings in golf and Tennis, but I might be wrong. Saying the Molokai doesn't fit into the world series of ocean paddling is like saying the French Open Tennis or the Masters are too hard so we should drop them from the world tour???? I can't agree with Dawid on that one. The Molokai is like the British Open, in that is was the 1st truly international ocean paddling event around the world and attracted the best paddlers from around the world. It showed in the world cup in Durban. Getting back on track with our sport that is exploding, what ever it takes to get sponsors on board we must use. We can call any event a world champs; till we have a 100% represented governing body that makes the decisions and brings the cash. I know the latter will happen when I turn 50 and can't win the cash anymore!! By the way Rob and I came up with the concept to see what the reactions would be. We said rather have something than nothing at all. Even if it is flawed it is a starting point and it is starting to work. Especially now that I am leading!!!!! Happy Ocean Paddling Oscar Chalupsky - O Chalupsky Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:45:24 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1242 Firstly...the races are not exclusive, everyone has an opportunity to show their mettle. If you think you're better or the best then you can come and prove it. You have every opportunity to line up and do it. Its actually harder for South Africans to get to these races than anyone else in terms of proximity and exchange rates; if we're going then no-one else has an excuse. If you want to be the best, you have to prove it in a variety of races which will dish up every aspect that surfski paddling is about. The races which are included in this series are all races that have a record of international competition and generally fall into similar distance and conditions - 25 to 35kms and predominantly downwind. Because the ocean is what it is you are guarenteed that, at the end of this world series of races, you would've encountered every aspect of ocean racing - flat, upwind, downwind, sidewind, hot, cold, surf, currents, rocks, reefs, beaches, cliffs, points and even yacht marinas! (But ALWAYS a major downwind section) Technically Molokai should not be there because of the distance, but it is because its big downwind an open ocean. I don't want to disrespect the race, its history, its organisers or any previous winners and competitors (I mean I've only done 1 and it was flat...) but unfortunately surfski has grown. One surfski race for a World Championship title just doesn't cut it any more than 1 tennis tournament, 1 golf tournament, 1 Formula One race or 1 surfing contest would. If you could guarentee consistent measureables like you can in swimming, flatwater paddling or athletics then sure, 1 event would do, but even these disciplines are moving away from the "One Race Counts" mentality. Even the previous unofficial World Champion knows that and is doing an exceptional job at proving that he is good no matter what the conditions (3rd in Auckland, strong headwind out, small runs back; 2nd in Dubai '06 - hot and dead flat) The Surfski.Info World rankings is ushering in a new era of surfski racing. So...if I could do well in any race...it would be EVERY race! Do people agree or disagree, I would love to know what everyone else thinks of this debate. If I'm out of line please tell me. Please comment. - DawidM Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:36:37 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1239 Hi Rob Molokia has been running since 1976 and although not sanctioned it is the world championships and if you could well in any race, that would be the one. Thanks for pointing out Hanks marathon races the weekend before as I'm sure this would have taken the edge off. That said Tim time was 3.20 faster than Oscar, 4.06 faster than Matt Bouman and over 5min faster than Bevan Mason who came in 5th. The big names of paddling in SA. This website is second to none, great job Rob Cheers SB - SB Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:55:02 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1236 Hi SB I think we agree that we need all the top paddlers to attend all the top events! But just a couple of points on what you said: >> SA have won every race except molokai but that is the world title Actually Molokai is no more a "world title" than anything else. It was probably the first race to call itself a "world championship" but that honorific is unofficial since it's not sanctioned by any sporting organisation. It's accurate to say that it is "considered to be the world title by some paddlers"! >> After all Hank is SA form paddler and finished 1min behind Tim over 20km Hank had just come off two marathon events the weekend before (K1 & K2) so he wasn't on top form that weekend. Having said that, Tim clearly showed his quality and you're right, he shouldn't be that far down the list. Let's hope he can find a way to get to some more events - he's an exciting paddler to watch. Murray Stewart is another, as is Dave Kissane. Cheers Rob - Rob Mousley Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:59:33 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1234 As you mentioned, ski paddling is on a rapid rise but it will still take sometime before all the best can attend every international event. Probably why Molokia has been the focus of every competitive paddler. Yes SA have won every race except molokia but that is the world title. Having Tim Jacobs ranked 15th after recent races just doesn't sound correct after flogging Hank and co. After all Hank is SA form paddler and finished 1min behind Tim over 20km. If SA paddlers had been on the pace greater consideration would have been given to the international field.The prove being the fact 20% of the field were unable to finish. - SB Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:14:16 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1129 Please let there be a RED7 in all of this :P - Christo Tromp Sun, 01 Jul 2007 12:29:29 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_1012 Rob - can it be done? Ski logo shows what type of ski was used. Similar points system - and we have the constructors cup!! - GD Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:48:18 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_994 How about it? Do you have the stats for the boat each paddler was paddling at the time? This will boost boat sponsorship for the top paddlers.... - Alain Jaques Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:14:28 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/432/147/#pc_979 SURELY THERE SHOULD BE SOME WEIGHTING FOR AGE.OSCAR IS 44.HE GIVES AWAY 20 YEARS AND MORE TO DAWID,DARYL AND BARRY.I WOULD TO SEE WHERE THESE 3 ARE GOING TO RATE IN 20 YEARS TIME. - PARKSY Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:17:03 +0100