Comments for ARB Surf Ski World Cup - Photos at http://www.surfski.info , comment 0 to 20 out of 22 comments http://www.surfski.info Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:15:30 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1264 Thanks Rob I'll post there. Oscar my reply is on the forum! - Johann van Blerck Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:52:37 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1257 There's a new topic on the forums as of 5 minutes ago specifically for this debate! ;) - Rob Mousley Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:08:58 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1255 Go to Dungeons as see if you can do it, then I will agree with you. Big winds and no waves PFD perfect, like Cape Town and Perth. Big waves a PFD is a hindrance if you have to duck dive. I am all for safety and what Daleviv said is 100% true. No your limits and enjoy the sport. - O Chalupsky Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:25:13 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1254 I don't buy the "PFD's can be a hinderance" argument. If they really are a hinderance they can be shed in an instant. They cannot be fetched in an instant. I'd also venture that cellphones, radios and flares are more easily used when wearing a PFD. I stand by my argument that in the prevailing so called "WC conditions" PFD's should be worn by all. In SA the controlling body have applied to SAMSA (Maritime body) for an exemption (Silly IMO) to run races without PFD's so it's legal to go without in a race such as WC. To paddle the course outside of the race without PFD's is illegal as it contravenes SAMSA regulations. - Johann van Blerck Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:00:22 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1247 I was in a situation yesterday (Sunday) where I was in a double doing a downwind from Marine to Umhlanga in really hectic conditions (world cup coditions), 4 kms from Umhlanga, about 1km out, the boat started filling up water, we decided to turn to the beach at La Lucia but by this stage swells were waves, monster waves, and needless to say, with a boat filling up with water, we were tossed into the water. The next moment a wave picked us up (ski and all) and threw us back down with such force that we were both kept under for some time. We came up for a breath only to be immediately confronted by another wave, we dived down and pulled ourselves beneath the turbulence. 30 mins later of pretty much the same we hit the beach extremely relieved to see one another after a few minutes. We both agreed that in that situation a PFD would possibly have been a hinderance as we needed to dive below the waves otherwise we would have been kept in the wave's white water for a lot longer. Our waterproof pouch (with cell phone in) was destoyed rendering the cell useless, ski was in pieces, GPS attached to ski, we spoke about flares, but would have taped them to boat (I know, I know). So after reading the posts above, safety is not a PFD issue but it must be a holistic approach to safety in general. Plan your paddle and paddle your plan. 1 - know yourself and ability as well has knowledge of the ocean (be brutally honest) 2 - Check out wind guru, bouy weather etc. 3 - Decide on route and stick to it. 4 - Check equipment before every paddle. (when last did you check cable connections) 5 - Tell someone when to expect you. 6 - Respect of and attitude towards the ocean will determine your enjoyment. 7 - Be disciplined. Cell phones, PFD's and flares are last resort measures, you actually don't want to be in a situation to have to use them and are only part of your safety regime. We had had bit of a wake up call as you most probably gather. Happy paddling. - Daleviv Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:39:56 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1235 Excuse my indifference but it would appear from where i sit, one who has taken part in a lot of ocean races inc the WC in Durban, that there are those who would like to pass comment or make proposed changes without in depth experience in such matters. To the oprganisers of the WC let me say this- Well done for having the balls to run a race in such testing conditions it was amazing.-well done for organising such a sponsor supportive event and finally, well done for quickly making your decisions and standing by them. Now to the issue of PFDs. The wearing of PFDs for "A" gade and "elite" paddlers should be optional for inetrnationaly ranked events. If your capabilities have not been tested via a previously contested, judged or apraised events and if you have not been granted an "A" grade or "Elite" status then PFDs are compulsory. Such a qualification should include a test swim of at least 800m and prof that you can handle downind and upwind paddles. There are only a few athletes who can trully be in the running for each category. If you are not in the running and just going through the motions to be a part of the event then take the safer option of leash and PFD or be forced to. - Tails Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:50:31 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1230 Johann, I understand that the NSSC is drawing up a comprehensive safety plan - which is "more than just PFDs/leashes". I have no doubt that input to the process from race organisers like you would be welcomed. In the meantime, I agree, please refrain for any further comments on this subject - on this article. The forums are designed for exactly such a discussion however. Rob - Rob Mousley Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:09:48 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1229 Dave during the last WC race there is a very good chance that paddlers may have been lost had they not been wearing PFD's. We have had a couple of close calls in recent races where the only reason the paddlers survived is because they were wearing PFD's and a paddler has been lost in a local race he wasn't wearing a PFD. Right now there are more paddlers on the water than ever before and it's only a matter of time. Sponsors particularly and the sport need to be protected. Rob I'm not sure what Butch means by "safety at sea is much more than simply PFDs and leashes" but this discussion is as a result of the glaring omission of these safety aids. Can I suggest we can the discussion here (World Cup Photo's) and start it again at a later date as a more general discussion. I have a lot more to add but feel like I'm dumping on the WC organisers and would prefer a seperate, constructive debate around safety with input from all corners of the surfski world? - Johann van Blerck Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:36:50 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1221 Can we please consider these 2 items separately when looking at their necessity. I wonder if every competitor (in the WC) had been properly leashed whether we would be having this debate? This sport has survived pretty well for the last 20 years without PFDs being made compulsory. Maybe start with leashes as the first safety item and see how it goes. If PFDs are so great why don't we all wear them? Because they can be restrictive, lead to overheating and can make it more difficult to climb back into your ski in full on conditions. To this day I have never done a race where PFDs are compulsory and no lives have been lost due to not wearing PFDs in races (that I know of). I suggest using leashes first and strongly recomending PFDs to those who feel they need them. 8) - Dave Kissane Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:20:15 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1214 I've heard from Butch Murray, the race organiser, on this topic. Two things are happening - one is that a comprehensive re-look at Ocean Racing safety is being embarked upon with the view that safety at sea is much more than simply PFDs and leashes. Secondly, and with immediate effect, PFDs have been made compulsory for all races everywhere in the country. - Rob Mousley Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:04:36 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1205 I agree with Johann. Make PFD's and leashes compulsory, end of story, no calls on race day and no prolonged arguments. It works in Cape Town, some don't like it but they wear one anyway. Eventually wearing it becomes second nature like a seatbelt in a car, you don't notice it and you feel unsafe without it. Remember bicycle helmets 15 years ago? Nobody wore one, now everybody does, all the time. I want this sport to grow, I've invested hundreds of hours in it I don't want to see that set back by a very public and very avoidable incident should a paddler drown in a race. Fingers will point at the organisers and the perception will be that this is a dangerous sport. - Alain Jaques Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:20:14 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1204 Daniel, Regarding flat water races and PFD's, significantly, paddlers do not undergo medicals in order to race. PFD's assist paddlers and their rescuers in the event of a medical episode. Fellow paddlers are compelled to assist competitors in distress and risk to both parties is decreased by a simple PFD. The water in some areas in the Cape hovers around 11 deg C. I can think of five paddlers in the last couple of years that survived long immersions in relatively warm False Bay. They would have been unlikely to survive similar episodes in the Atlantic on the other side of the Peninsula but at least they would have been found floating somewhere. In areas where fishing and pleasure craft operate there's a risk of being run down. Paddlers have been dashed against rocks in good weather and the one and only Rob was dashed against the Roman Rock shelf and went down a couple of meters before his PFD brought him up having cushioned a severe impact to boot. We have lost paddlers that might have made it if they were wearing PFD's. It seems some of our top paddlers cannot remount their ski's if they fall off as they seldom have to. These are just some aspects to consider. My personal opinion is well known and the sooner our national body wake up the better. - Johann van Blerck Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:02:16 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1203 Not to have insisted on PFD's for this event, when everyone of the organisers knew what was out there, was just plain stupid period. The organisers and sponsors were just lucky there was no serious incident with the attendant bad publicity. - Johann van Blerck Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:57:43 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1201 Sorry Rob, but it was me that past you on the upwind finish. Despite the awesome conditions I really had a shocker, bad start which took me a hour to settle down only to have a goof and shortly thereafter paddled out to a paddler who seemed to be in trouble with what I expected to be a snapped cable. It was Gavin Searle with a French paddler that had lost his ski and with no lifejacket or flare he then hung onto Gavin ski for over an hour untill they made it to the beach. I always paddle downwinds with a leash, but was a little embrassed that I could n't loan the visitor a lifejacket or flare as I opted not to use them. I guess I'm not the only paddler that was caught off guard in the extreme conditions & in hind sight at 25 knots PFDs etc should have been enforced. Rob keep the good work up! - Jamii Hamlin Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:11:22 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1199 While we were waiting for the start, Billy Harker was making announcements over the PA system and said several times that while PFDs were not compulsory, they were strongly recommended due to the extreme conditions. Most of the paddlers chose not to use PFDs although quite a few were in fact what I would call "fully prepared" i.e. had cellphone in a pouch, a PFD & leash. After the race was over Butch Murray said at prize giving that they would be reconsidering the decision re PFDs. - Rob Mousley Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:08:16 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1198 It appears that lifejackets and leashes were not made compulsory for the world cup race despite the fact that the conditions were really extreme. Perhaps the organizers can explain why they felt this safety precaution was deemed not necessary. In Cape Town the policy which I do not agree with is that lifejackets must be worn in all races even if the conditions are extremely safe. I would prefer a more flexible policy. Although the organizers in Durban and Cape Town are the same they appear to have different rules for Durban. If you look at the pics from the men's health races in Durban, it appears that the competitors are not wearing lifejackets. - daniel Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:54:37 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1197 I had an absolute ball in the 'big durban runs'. Any aussies contemplating going over it is a must trip. Next year i need to do more training in the big southerly's we get in Sydney (even though they wont really compare). Thanks to Gavin Searle for all his help, he and his team put on a 1st class weekend of surf ski racing. - William Hardman Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:39:36 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1193 I agree with the comment "don't look back". I did it once, and it freaked me out so badly that for the rest of the race I was only looking 2m infront of the nose. Being knocked out of your ski by white water in those conditions is a sobering experience. But this is exactly what ski racing is all about - hectic downwind excitement, and not boring laps. Bring on the annual Durban Downwind Series in /- Oct!! - Craig van Heerden Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:52:22 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1190 Awesome - awsome conditions - but lets be honest this race was marred by the complications at the harbour wall. The question has to be asked - if there was no ship - would the results be the same??????But we cant changed what happened - so here is my suggestion : lets make sure we have the same turnout for this years Cape Point Challenge ! In order to be fair, a race of this stature should involve varied conditions ( some upwind) - and of course no ships crossing the route. The Cape Point will guarantee this. I suggest that ARB and the race organisers find the ways and means to get all the chaps who finished in the top 20 down to Cape Town in December and lets do it again.....cheers. Well done ARB - great effort. - Trautmann Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:10:48 +0100 http://www.surfski.info/content/view/456/147/#pc_1189 Good on 'ya' Steve-0. - richard von wildemann Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:59:35 +0100