Surfski.Info World Rankings 2007/2008

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Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:25:24 +0100

Poll closed... Question Should the Cape Point Challenge be included in the Surfski.info World Rankings? Results Yes: 127 votes No: 120 votes So - the Cape Point Challenge WILL be included in the 2007/2008 World Rankings. - Rob Mousley

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Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:56:27 +0100

If I can make a suggestion. To look at the way cycling is run. An international sport that has great races around the world, it still has a single "World Championship" Race. It does not lower the achievement off any other winner, but it open the door for a race winner that is not "cashed up". As surf skiing is headed towards more and more sponsored paddlers, it seems logical to me that you could have a "professional" series and a world champ race. The winner of ther series that you speak off could be know as the World Series Champion, and you could have the winner of the big M as the World Champ. Neither would be less of an achievement, but it would enable young and old paddlers to be able to achieve fame and possably sponsorship by winning or doing well in the World Champ race. The two could feed off each other. Hopefully you could even find a naming sponsor for the series??? Just a mug paddlers idea. I know one thing I want to do in my life is the Molkai, but I will never have the resorces to do the series! Keep up the great sight. Rob - Rob Fishbeck

No Video, No TV, No way.

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:06:16 +0100

It won't matter what anyone does, until we get this exciting sport onto televisions it will never happen in a big way, and especially won't attract major corporate sponsors. The recent Duban race is a classic example, everybody raving about the conditions and how amazing it was, I havent seen one bit of fair dinkum footage. Have the races wherever you like, the avergae punter won't care, just make sure there is one in each of the major participating countries. Its no different to Ironman Triathlon, have enough races in enough countries and the people will come, some will go to them all, some to a few and most only to that race in their country. There has to be a major race, and it would seem Molokai is it. Maybe one day, you'll have to qualify to compete at Molkai just like Ironman Hawaii. - Michael Knight

Boyan Zlatarev

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:47:46 +0100

Fair to say Boyan is the fastest man on the water in the UAE (with some serious heat just behind him from guys like Haydon Holmes, Rob Klok, Pete O Higgins) and is putting a lot into the sport here through the excellent Dubai paddleing school, and is a great natural talent. It is our great hope here that one day he & a few of our other Dubai operators pull a surprise move on the seeded internationals - and we get some poduim action. One day! DSKC will keep ensuring we send paddlers to 'run with the big dog's' from time to time - just not repeat of the 2007 Molo, please. - GD

World Tour Events

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:57:08 +0100

Hi everyone, I haven't had the chance to enter any of the big challenges around the world and can't really comment CPC. One thing that I really appreciated was when in 2006 I lined up with some of the best ski paddlers in the world during Dubai Shamaal. I had paddled for 6 years and finally had the opportunity to see where I stand in comparison with the big guys. It was an exciting race for me although some will say that it was flat water and not much of a challenge. I think that the world tour should include as many different destinations as possible and not have more than one race per country so people like me get the chance to line up with the best without having to spend a lot and travel too far. I realize that SA has the biggest paddling crowd in the world and also that it is impossible to have events everywhere but I also don't think that you want to call yourselves world champions if you are the only ones competing. If we have more destinations around the world, there is a better chance to find talent outside of SA and Australia to make the sport more interesting. Another thing is that sponsored paddlers shouldn't just take part in the events, get the cash and go for the next race. I believe that it is their responsibility to become ambassadors of the sport and give some of their time to motivate paddlers from the local community by participating in clinics and demo events that would benefit sponsors and Surfski Paddling as a sport. This should probably be reinforced by the organizers of each event but in any case this is how the sport will spread to parts of the world different from SA, Australia and USA. There are many things to be considered but here I have to agree with Rob Mousley that we should keep it simple in the beginning and get things going and make changes as the tour develops rather than try to anticipate every single aspect in advance. I don't think that anyone has a doubt that races like Molokai, PE to EL and Cape Point Challenge are unique and difficult to compete in. If I win CPC I wouldn't care if I got no points for World Tour because the Challenge on its own has enough credibility and it doesn't need to be included in any list to prove that. Challenges of this caliber are above the world cup and of course open for a great number of participants. World tour list of events is not there to show which most popular or most difficult races are, it is a way to popularize the sport and give a chance to everyone to compete with the best. It is also the way to find out who the best of the best is. Fair enough only the top guys and girls will get to travel to all of the events but this is exactly the idea, the set up cannot cater for all paddlers in the world to move from continent to continent every month. Thanks for reading. I hope to see you all in Dubai for some flat water heat exhausting monotonous dusty town sun burning paddling…I will enjoy every second of it!!! Cheers - Boyan Zlatarev

ICF involvement

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:03 +0100

This is such an exciting time to be involved in this sport! I am glad Tim mentioned the ICF as I see this as a real issue potentially. Whilst there was much happiness about the Durban World Cup gaining ICF recognition I have to wonder why. Don't get me wrong, I fully support the ICF as it is but we need to ask what it will do for our sport. It is largely effective as a body for dealing with Olympic disciplines and the issue of drugs. Surfski is not about to become an olympic discipline. The ICF promotes canoeing still as an entirely amateur sport. The real pros are funded by national governing bodies in their bid for OLYMPIC glory. There is absolutely no prize money in slalom and sprinting. There is absolutely no prize money on the world cup circuits of wildwater and marathon racing. The ICF loves regulation.There are great restrictions on who can enter the sprint, slalom, wildwater and marathon world cup series, both in terms of competitor numbers and boat spec. Look at the current world cup series for the non-olympic wildwater and marathon. In marathon there are only 2 world cups all year. They are generally held in Europe. This year ther were less than 20 mens K1 entries and power nations like AUS, RSA and Portugal didn't send any athletes. Are these really the best marathon events in the world? No. The Sella, Liffey, Avon, Ardeche, Fish , Devises to Westminster etc do far more to promote the sport:they have sponsorship, prize money, TV coverage and mass participation. None of them are ICF events. Fantastic site guys. - Chris Chorley

Parksy's capital letters...

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:15:20 +0100

Hey GD >> Always like your comments - and glad you have stopped writing in CAPITAL letters. Errr... the original comment WAS in caps - some cunning undercover moderation happened...! >> Why is it so tough...I may now have to do it! In a Southeaster: First half into the wind - and usually on the Atlantic side of Cape Point i.e. into big waves. Also the last 4km before the point has breakers that pop up anywhere - the "southwestern reefs". Also the last 4km is incredibly choppy from the reflected waves bouncing off Cape Point. Guys often get seasick at this point. Awesome runs down to Buffels. Then the beginning of the next section as far as Smits is extremely choppy - again waves reflected off the cliffs. Finally the runs start getting better and better and it turns into the regular Millers Run. In a northwester: Nice runs down to the Point - then a head-bashing crawl along the coast, tucked right into shore to take what shelter is available. For me it's the ultimate test of ski paddling - it's rough water all the way, you go into wind, across the chop and you have a major downwind component. I fully intend to do Molokai one day, but Cape Point is the "other" big race in my calendar (and since it's local, it's easy for me to do)! (PE2EL is an ultra-marathon and the kind of thing I might attempt once in my life - Cape Point I intend to do every year.) - Rob Mousley

Change format each year

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:05:33 +0100

On the weekend I was assistant time keeper in some of the winter marathon rces here in NSW the thing that I notice most was not only the amount of surf skis participating but the amount of different skis the were on display by different outlets. The point being this sport is taking off anf needs something like a world championship. So why not have the 6 races in each country, which gives the paddlers from that country a home advantage, but change the venue biannually say Durban one year Cape Town the next, then everyone gets a chance. Tom B - Tom B

Hi Parksy

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:56:09 +0100

Always like your comments - and glad you have stopped writing in CAPITAL letters. Can you tell me how the CPC is harder that the PE/EL. I have done the PE/EL (Double), am doing it single in 2008 - but never wanted to do the CPC. You have my interest now. The only comments I have had are about a v hard race - done in freezing water. The guys last time did not even do the traditional course - and did not rave about it at all. Why is it so tough...I may now have to do it! - GD

World Champs

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:48:54 +0100

Great debate. After the all the work that went into ensuring that surfski paddling was recognised by the ICF - will the ICF will be the body ratifying the WOrld Championship and WOrld Cup Status as they do with the other disciplines? I note that ICF rules (as I understand currently in draft form) regulate the above fixtures and other things such as boat weight (I may be incorrect but a number 13kg minimum limit seems to ring a bell) - when will organisers be bound by these rules? - tim

CPC

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:55:40 +0100

Believe me I echo Oscar's sentiments about the difficulty of the CPC. Having completed 11 of the 13 they have had, I can tell you that I rate it as the most difficult race on the local calendar. I rate it even harder than the PE2EL. Some years ago Tony Scott told me that these CPCs were the hardest races he had ever done in the world. This race, if done on the traditional course, is a real challenge not a race and I believe that it should NOT be included on the World Cup calendar. Finally I would just like to appeal to the organisers of the CPC to do everything possible for the race to be completed on the traditional route. - PARKSY

Let's just get started...!

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:49:47 +0100

There are some great ideas being thrown out here and I'm sure that eventually we will have Asian, US, Australian, European and SA tours. But we have to start somewhere and one of the goals for the immediate future is to keep it simple. By arbitrarily declaring the "Surfski.info World Rankings" we hope to stimulate interest and discussion within the paddling community (and clearly we're succeeding there!) AND we hope to raise the profile of paddling so as to help event organisers to increase sponsorship. Increased sponsorship improves events for everyone - not just the elite competitors who are in line to win big prize money. The ARB Surf Ski World Cup was the biggest, best organised race yet - and because of that the experience was great for ALL the paddlers, not just the top guys. (Just ask the youngster who won a V10Ultra in one of THREE ski giveaways - both Red7 and Custom Kayaks gave away skis in lucky draws as well!) The Dubai Shamaal race is going to be wrapped in a whole tourist experience - it's going to be a holiday, not just a race. So the argument that the World Rankings benefit only the elite paddlers is not true. My thinking was (and is): - Select a set of races for the Rankings - Interest the top paddlers in the process to give the Rankings some credibility - Race organisers now have another selling point to pitch to the sponsors - Increased sponsorship means bigger races, more elite paddlers and (as important) more non-elite paddlers. MORE FUN FOR EVERYONE! As I said before - right now exactly which races are included doesn't really matter. We have a set of races that meet the approval of a fair selection of international paddlers. That's enough. CPC is a great race, there's a debate on whether it should be included - fair enough. But let's work on making the current Rankings work and then take it from there. Next year the list can grow and if there are credible races in Europe or Asia or wherever, of course they can be added to the list. If we get a big sponsor on board and they want to create a surfing style world series, of course, no problem. But right now, we need a simple formula to get paddlers and sponsors interested. It may not be perfect but it's a start. - Rob Mousley

TomBJ Great idea!

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:21:57 +0100

Tom, Great thinking. Now all you have to do is convince Rob. Not an easy thing to do. - Horatio

We could look at it in a slightly different way

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 07:53:48 +0100

Instead of a traditional 'World Cup', consider adopting a format such as they use in international golf. Firstly, there is no 'World Cup' (well, there is that 2-man event that hardly got off the ground). Instead they have the Majors. Also, there is more than 1 tour (European, PGA, Sunshine Tour, etc.) Now instead of debating about which event gets WC status, we start a poll to decide which are our Majors. We already have 'tours' in the making in SA and Oz - we just formalise this. We could start an Asian and US tour as well (eventually even a European tour). Then races in each tour get points status, with the most prestigious races such as 20 Beaches and CPC receiving more points than other smaller races. The Majors get big points. Molokai, being the 'Augusta' of surfski, gets huge points. We'll see paddlers going after the grand slam, etc. So all races around the world are now Included instead of the current situation where races are being Excluded. The debate about what must be considered a WC event will end because all races count (some much more than others). Each race that is given 'points status' must then conform to certain internationally accepted criteria. If they don't conform they lose their points status (and therefore sponsorship potential), which will keep up standards. We will have leaderboards for the SA tour, the Oz tour, etc. The top 4 on each tour are then invited to each of the Majors where they are hosted all-expenses-paid. This will give the Majors much more punch because all the top guys will be there. Most importantly: if we have various regional tours with many races counting for points, we now have the opportunity for all paddlers to be included because we can all participate. We can ALL earn points. We ALL have a chance to get a world ranking. In other words, instead of the top 10 we now have the top 500! This will kill the 'eliteist' tag that the WC will adopt. We must be more inclusive, not exclusive. This will grow the sport much more. - TomBJ

WC Criteria & Race Selection Committee

Wed, 18 Jul 2007 06:16:54 +0100

Clearly, criteria needs to agreed to by key stakeholders on what qualifies as a World Cup event. First you need to identify who the stakeholders are: the elite paddlers? sponsors? the mass ocean paddling fraternity? Once this is done, these stakeholders should be represented and WC events approved. Until this is done, debate will rage and the WC label will be abused. If the CPC is to be considered, why not include Australia's most famous race - the "20 Beaches"? I think the obvious answer is that no international paddlers do it and there are already enough races. - Dave K

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Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:36:08 +0100

The authors are pushing the image of surski in an "extreme sport" direction with which i fully agree. Surski padlling is an extreme sport without any doubt. We must be careful to not associate extreme with big as in wave and wind conditions only. The distance of the race is a big factor in whether the race is extreme or not, ie a flat long race can still be extreme ie molokai 2007. However i dont think that the world series/circuit must have the exclusivity of "extreme only" hanging over it but rather one of "diversity". This then would include races like dubai and possibly hong kong of which both would be hard to rival durban wc and cpc in "extremity". It is an excellent idea to have races all over the world and i hope we can get them in as many possible. I think we should include cpc in the world rankings. It is the toughest one day surfski race in the world in terms of time and conditions and one of the oldest and to leave it out would be a shame to the rankings and possibly also be the beginning of the end for the race. If the calendar is set and paddlers have an idea of what lies ahead they can plan for the season and decide which races are more important than others for themselves. The points scheme that excludes the paddlers worst few races will fit neatly into this. In terms of money and accesibility it is better to have more world cup races. That for example would enable a south african guy, who is not serious to be world champ, to take part in the two SA wc's. Serious, profesional paddlers will find or ideally be offered sponsorships to travel to international races. - Jasper Mocke

Another Slogger - see? we're growing in number

Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:50:16 +0100

Surfski fields will increase as publicity and support grows- Even the Molokai, with it's high costs and low purse (read: the race could be run from the new interisland 900 passenger catamarans), and as more and more of us older guys 'n gals turn to surfski racing - because our knees won't support us running anymore. The pure fun (as the O says) in doing the Molokai will keep me coming back, working to be better and better each time. If there is only one big race a year in your wallet, I would vote for the Molokai - but then I live here! - Ken Moore

CPC

Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:29:25 +0100

Doods, ask Dawid right now what too much racing and too much distance can do to you, it's not cool burning out, losing form or racing tired. Been there and it's not fun! Cape Point is a classic and will always be a classic, it's one of the most awesome races I have ever done but it does not fit this tour. Its just too long and at a time of the year where there is too much other racing for the top guys. I won't do Cape Point even if it is included and its in my home country, you can't expect a massive international field after such intense racing in Dubai and Ausi. The events that have been picked work, the top guys can get to them all in one year! I will be at all 6! - Barry

Slogger

Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:52:30 +0100

Nico has a good point, [quote] Personally I believe surfskiing is already too much of an elitist sport, not only in terms of the type of people that take part, but also in terms of making big races accessible to ordinary folk. Yes Molokai clips are nice to watch, but seriously for most of us it's not going to happen. Why should the big races only cater for the top paddlers? That is what makes road running races like the comrades great, they are also about the tail enders, not just the winner.[/quote] Surfskiing is an elitist sport and highly competative. In a running race I come somewhere near the middle of the field, in a river race I'm three quarters down and in surfski I am a tail ender. I don't think my ability or my fitness changes but running and river racing just seem to have a larger range of less talented athletes. This is where the growth potential in the sport is, besides it will make my placing look better. I think the Shamaal organisers have got it right with the Anchorman competition where your ordinary slogger can be treated like an elite paddler for the event. Oscar too has a point, comparing the Fish River marathon to the Berg River Marathon. Everybody who finishes the Fish wants to come back, the race is Big and Exciting but it is not a major endurace event, also the whole weekend vibe in the middle of nowhere is so amazing. - Alain Jaques

CPC dieing ...

Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:29:37 +0100

Just a last comment on CPC and in response to Oscar's comment re longer races dieing. This certainly isn't the case with CPC. The last race had a record entry, and the organisers were under more pressure to try and limit the entry field than to try and boost it. Because of all the reasons mentioned above it is tremendously popular and will remain so. Cheers - oceana