Surfski Forum

Think Kayaks have recently finished their latest design, The Legend. It is aimed at elite level paddlers and with a radical hull design makes for awesome down wind paddling.


The details should be posted up on the main page soon. In the mean time, if you have any questions feel free to contact Think Kayaks, or for any Aussie paddlers, you can contact me directly.

Cheers,


Stewart.

Hey Stewart what are the specs on this new Think.....

G'Day Ted.


It's 21'3" long and 17" wide.


But the secret is in the hull, which is a new departure in ski design.

This sounds pretty exciting. Stewart, any chance that you could post length-wise hull-up shots of your skis in proper lighting so that we can get a better idea of hull shape?

Stewart suppose it is a bit premature to find a review anywhere yet? If not a future comparison with the popular elite ski's (V10, Mako6) would be a good test of this new hull design.

Hi Ritchie,

As the ski is still 2 weeks away from delivery to Oz, I can't take a photo for you unfortunately. As soon as we do have photos available on the net, I'll put up a link, so long as the mods don't mind. I will clear it with them first of course.

Hey Ted,


When the ski arrives here in Oz, I'd be more than happy for someone to try it out and do a comparison to other manufacturers' skis.

Having unbiased reviews means that all paddlers considering purchasing a new ski have good information from which to make a decision on what to buy. Also helps manufacturers get good feedback on their product of course.

Here's some info we were sent by Daryl Remmler of Think Kayaks:

The seat seems a long way forward, very little rocker.  Should run well on small stuff but how well does it do in the big stuff?  Anyone tested it yet?

Stuart

Does the Legend still come with spectra or is it already stainless cable? Any new innovation in the rudder system?

Hello all,
The legend seat position is slightly forward, but nothing dramatic. Rocker is low, but the ends are fine, with a V profile at the bow, so there is no bucking or slapping. Rudder set-up is the same as the evo, only with a lighter, thinner profile rudder, and a built in weed guard on the hull. We use Q-power line spectra for our rudder lines. Best in the industry. The cockpit drain is large, 23mm, and comes with an attached bung. Great for flatwater starts, and nice for cold water starts too.
Best regards,
Daryl

Great to have boat makers/designers with vision.  Well done, Daryl and Jeff.

The Evo is impressive for what it is - an intermediate racing ski with good speed, stability, feel.  I anxiously await my first ride in a Legend. 

Hi Daryl,

Any chance of posting different profile pics of the Legend next to the EVO?

Hi Ted,
I will do that soon. First shipment should arrive here in early Feb. I can get the shots then. There is a chance Stewart may receive his first. If so he will probably be able to get good shots, and a review done reasonably quick.
Best regards,
Daryl

Hey Daryl - will you have any boats at Molokai in May?  Looks like I'll be over there - it would be great to try them!

Hey Ted,


As Darryl said, I might have the first ones here before they get to Canada. I'll take a heap of shots and post them on my website.

Of course, you're more than welcome to pop down and check the Legend out against the Evo and take it for a paddle.

Oi Rob, that's top secret! I'll keep you posted.
Daryl

Hello all,

We received the first container of the New Year, which included a handful of Legend's. It's blizzard here today, so no on the water shots yet. For those in the Northwest, Bob, at Deep Cove, has one in the shop.

I'll get some water photos up next week.

Daryl

Feb 6th the first batch land here.


Can't wait. ;D

They're in!! ;D


All I have to say is......wow!

Hey Stewart,

Paddled the Legend for 2 hours today, into the wind and downwind.

Cant fault it, fastest boat i have ever been in. Linked up run after run so easy.

Great craftmanship too.

Well done to you and your team, cant wait to use it in my next race.

Hi,
there is one first pic on the manufacturers website.

Cheers

Rolf

http://www.thinkkayaks.com/images/Think_Legend_Daryl.jpg (http://www.thinkkayaks.com/images/Think_Legend_Daryl.jpg)

Jeez, I went to find Think Kayaks in our links list... wasn't there.  How bad!  Now it is.

It wasn't on our surfski world map either!  Hey Daryl/Stewart get your locations on the map!

See: http://www.surfski.info/component/option,com_myblog/show,Surfski-World-Map.html/Itemid,224/ (http://www.surfski.info/component/option,com_myblog/show,Surfski-World-Map.html/Itemid,224/)

That's great news Will, glad you enjoyed your first hit out on it.


I'll have those new padded boat bags in soon, so you can keep your new baby nice and protected!


I'll have to join you out there when the next southerly kicks up.


Cheers mate.

Hey Stewart can you give us some more info on the ski covers????

I've been after one for a while. ??? >:(

Cheers

What ski are you on?

We make custom bags for all our skis and kayaks, so every design has it's own cover.

They're light foam with a soft inner fabric, quick drying. We use velcro closing so there are no scrathes from zips and they fold up neatly when being stored away.

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the note. Think and Quantum are now on the Map!

The Legend is working really well, and like the Evo, it will set a new standard for its class.

Best regards,

Daryl

Yes, thanks for that link Rob, I put my details up yesterday.


What a great service for paddlers, well done.

Hi Ted,


A customer in NZ has ordered a Legend. I took some photos for him quickly this morning. The light wasn't fantastic but you can see the chined hull pretty clearly.

I don't have them online to link to them, can e-mail them if you wish.

Cheers.

Thanks Stewart, the curiosity was getting to me  ;D

The pictures quality are good enough to see what a different direction Think has taken. For those that havent seen it yet the LEGEND hull looks like a normal type ski front that morphs into a nearly flat bottom hard chined rear end. Looks very fast like it could get up on the plain.

Stewart if you havent had a chance to take it in the ocean..maybe Willy can answer

With that hard chine how is the transition between primary and secondary stability, coping with direction changes and cross chop to the rear.

How about posting some pics? As a 14' skiff sailor I have a thing for hard chines.

This is what Willy said:

Cant fault it, fastest boat i have ever been in. Linked up run after run so easy.



So I guess the direction changes weren't a problem for him. He commented on how stable the ski was, as did everyone who demoed it at the weekend, from low to intermediate paddlers, to one of the top racers in Australia.

Can we attach photos here?


I don't have them online to link to. More than happy to e-mail them to anyone who wants them though.

Hi Stewart,

If you get a chance, please send a set my way. Thanks.


paddleshop@hotmail.com


Aloha,
pog


P.S. To Daryl, will keep trying !

Sent  ;D

Hi all,

I have not seen the pictures that Stew has shot yet, but I imagine they make the hull look pretty flat.

This is an illusion created by the hard chines, as the hull actually has a gently curved cross section between the chines. In fact it is not as "flat" as a competitors hull. This curve allows the paddler to easily control the attitude of the boat, and not be forced into fighting a flat hulled boats tendancy to stay square to the surface of the water.

The hard chines offer tons of secondary stability, and once up and running offer better release, making the boat nice and slippery for linking runs together.

Best regards,

Daryl

First batch of photos, sent to us by Stewart.

Second batch.  Interesting hull shape!

That IS flat. I wonder what the experts have to say. What is the drawback of having such a flat bottom and sharp angles? I looks  :-\ like it is very stable but slow in the chop as those angles resist the roll.

It's not actually. If you see the ski and inspect it you will see that to be the case.





Experts designed it, so they're more than happy with their work.


[/quote] 
What is the drawback of having such a flat bottom and sharp angles? I looks  :-\ like it is very stable but slow in the chop as those angles resist the roll.
[/quote]

On the contrary, this ski takes off in the chop, is exceptionally easy to paddle. If you ever get a chance to paddle it you will get to appreciate how well it deals with choppy water. Reaction here has been fantastic.

Could someone explain the term "chines" please?

Looks like a skiff. I would think that secondary stability would be determined by the topside profile, not the hull bottom, which appears to have a V shape to some degree. A couple of minor points. It might be the photography, but the rudder does not look like a proper foil. The other would be the footstraps. This is mostly a personal preference thing on my part, but I like a one piece padded velcro adjustable strap, so that the feet can be strapped in tight. This ski needs to be downhill reviewed by a paddler experienced with the two benchmarks--the V10 and M6.

I'm going to keep an open mind as I am currently in the market for a new ski, although I'll have to say that I am most highly impressed at this point with the direction that the Surf70 Pro has taken.

Things are definitely heating up, as I recall Greg Barton mentioning in Dubai having some new designs, either on the table or in at least in mind. I love an arms race.

Thanks Stewart for sending ...

Hey, maybe two more for everyone here.

One each from the bow and stern shot @ a super low angle so we can see this curve you are talking about.

aloha,
pog

The straps are adjustable, so can be made as tight or lose as you like.

I also have in stock, velcro straps for our kayak range, and they fit on nicely, so you can have it either way.



Do you mind if I don't let someone take my ski downhill!!! ;)

Only joking.

Willy, who posted earlier, has moved from an XLR8, so his thoughts are more than valid I would say. In that paddle downwind, he knocked out 14kms in 56 mins, after paddling 12 kms across a bay to get out through the heads chase the runs north.

I know he tried all of the skis you mentioned, Ritchie.

I think though, that rather than make direct comparisons between skis, people should get out there and try everything that's available, and whatever feels right for them, then go for that ski. Of course I'm going to be biased towards Think Kayaks, the same way the designers and manufacturers of other craft are going to tell you what they do is best. But if this continual search for improvement in hull designs keeps everyone on their toes and thinking of how to do things better, well than you guys who are out there doing the paddling can only benefit. There have been some exciting designs of late, and the guys who have done the hard work coming up with them should be applauded.

Hello All,

Alain, it looks flat, but for example, a V10 is flatter. Per your comment, "looks slow", Ouch! Not slow, thank you.

Richard, secondary stabilty is achieved when the hull rolls and stability is provided before you fall in. Of course if you do fall in, this is a very stable position.

Gary, a chine refers to a relatively hard edge on a boat hull.

As all of you know, at this level it's about the engine, not the boat. See Greg Barton win the Blackburn Challenge in a fast touring boat. Great engine. Our goal with the Legend was to create a competitive boat that optimized the engine (you) for surfski racing. That means providing competitive speed WITH comfort AND stability for open ocean racing. This goal has been acheived.

While our use of chines on a surfski is new, the use of chines in paddlesports is not. This design feature has been used for centuries, and their characteristics are well known. Of course our take on how to use the chines is a little different, as it should be. This is how performance is pushed forward.

Best regards,

Daryl Remmler
Think Kayak Inc.

Didn`t Hayden in Australia incorporate mini-chines to the tail end of their ILS Spec skis a year or two ago?
Great to see more ski shapes and debate going on - keep it up guys!
Owen

Daryl,
I think it is about the boat, especially at the non-elite level where the way a boat handles can have a significant effect on a paddlers performance. I hope to get a chance to try one out.

Sorry Daryl about the 'looks slow' comment. The full context is 'looks slow in the chop'. But I stand corrected that it is not the case. We look forward to getting some comments from paddlers or even getting the Legend reviewed. Any chance of getting one to Hawaii for the Molokai? Rob will be there.

Well done on the new design, with any different looking design there is bound to be speculation and opinions flying around.

I would disagree with that Richie, particularly at non-elite level.


There are so many skis that cater for paddlers who are not racing at elite level, that allow you to get out on the water and develop your skis before progressing to faster, more unstable skis. In the Think range, this is covered by the Evo which is a fantastic ski for chasing runs, but is really comfortable and stable. The Legend is a step up in performance from the Evo, and once you have the skills required to master a ski like the Evo, then the Legend is there waiting to be tried.


The focus of The Think range is to provide skis that allow the paddler (the engine) to perform at his best. By providing a stable platform the paddler is focussed on getting the most out of each stroke, rather than balancing and trying to not fall in.


I think it's important for paddlers to know what level they are at, and that paddling the fastest ski isn't often the best way for them to go fast. Often when a paddler uses "slower" model skis they will perform better as the engine is more in tune with the chassis.

Hi Ritchie,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I've been travelling.

I agree with both your statement and Stewart's. At the non-elite level, it is more about the boat, because the boat needs to provide a platform that really does create confidence. This is where the Evo falls, yet it is still a very competitive design.

At the elite level, I believe it's mostly about the engine, as the boats all have roughly the same maximum velocity on flat water, and this has been the case for 15 years. I know, as I have pretty much owned them all. What has changed is that the boats have gotten progessively easier to paddle, without sacrificing speed.

I feel the Legend is the next step. It offers both greater secondary stability (in the elite boat class), and better downwind performance, than the current standard.

Best regards,

Daryl

The Legend had it's first race in Australia yesterday at the Bridge to Manly race. 2 Legends used in the race, both finishing in the top 20.

Tommy Woodriff came in 5th and William Hardman 19th. Considering how flat the conditions were we're really happy. Next weekend's race should have heaps of chop and runs, which the Legend just loves. Looking forward to seeing how it performs.

A few very rushed shots from the Bridge to Beach last weekend. Tommy and Willy on their Legends.



I've also got some of Jeremy and Caine which I'll send to Rob now to post up if he like them.

I'm hoping that Will, the Australian customer who has had a Legend for a month now, will be getting a review into surfski.info in the next few days.

Thanks,

Daryl

"I'm hoping that Will, the Australian customer who has had a Legend for a month now, will be getting a review into surfski.info in the next few days."

Well I have had the Legend for a month and competed in 2 events in Sydney, Australia. I placed 19th in the Bridge to Beach and 10th in the Yarra Bay race in Sydney's Botany Bay.

I am used to paddling a spec ski (Slipstream). I have been keen to get into a lightweight modern ocean ski for a while. I part owned an XLR8 which i found quite good and stable in the big stuff.  I also tried out a Mako 6 which my mate owns, I found it to be very fast but a little too unstable in choppy water for me. I guess i could have got used to it.

I started paddling 2 years ago with a squad of guys on kayaks - 'Jimsquad'. My background was a bit of surf swimming in the surf club. The coach is Jimmy Walker (former olympian) and now NSWIS coach. I was lucky because i got in with a group of good paddlers and certainly a good coach who gave me tips as to the right technique early on and monitored my technique as i went.

I also competed in the world cup race in durban last year and placed about 50th (i think). As you can see by my recent results, my paddling as a direct result of better technique and very fast ski has led to a rapid improvement.
 
As soon as i jumped on the Legend it was right for me. Very light (12kg) and felt just like paddling a kayak.  It grabs the runs so well. I have been amazed at how easy it is to link runs out in the big stuff. Where before I would 'wallow' in between swells the legend allows me to glide across to the next swell or just simply go straight over the top to the next one.  It feels like i have my bum on the deck and the rest of the ski is flying (I guess this is what the good paddlers feel when they are going well in races).

It is interesting time, my paddling is improving all the time and now my surfing as a direct result of using the legend has improved immensly.

I am hoping to do the Molokai race this year. A few other Sydney boys are heading over also. Should be a blast!  I just hope the wind really blows and the swell is huge!! Give the Legend a true test.

Regards,

Willy

I'm currently in a Fenn XT glass and thinking(excuse the pun) of getting a Think Evo or Legend in Kevlar...any views on pros ond cons from anyone who has paddled all 3...I am still fairly new to paddling but comfortable in the XT and wanting a faster boat...any opinions?
Thanks
Alex

Alex,

I have only paddled an Evo once and now own a Legend. I cannot comment on Fenn XT as i have never been on one.

The Evo is a very stable ski for someone who hasnt done too much paddling.
The Legend is also very stable but less stable than the Evo. It is narrower and has a radical new chimed hull design that seems to grab any size run with ease.

I own the light 12kg Legend and find it to be the fastest craft i have been on, this has alot to do with the weight and the stability. I dont miss a stroke when i paddle which has happened alot in the past.

The few times I have paddled out through the heads in Sydney where the water gets very rough due to the bouceback against the cliffs the Legend feels very stable.  On the Legend i am able to hold my stroke and my speed togehter which i have never been able to do before.

I would recommend it to you, but you should contact the guys at Think to try it out for yourself.

Thanks for the feedback Willie, I have organised to do a test run on both , so will be able to report back on comparison soon.

Hi Willy have you had a chance to paddle in a big downwind like the southerly conditions over easter. If so how did the ski go with the big drops and drainage?

Sorry for delay in replying i have been in WA for the Aussie surf titles.
I did one big day from La Perouse to Rose Bay but was sick the whole way, it was a virus and should not have paddled.  The guys i paddled with took off and left me wallowing throwing up. Dont know how i made it, but i did. As i arrived at Rose Bay the boys were jumping back on their ski's to come and see where i was.

So to answer your question, no not during Easter. But will be the next few weeks in preparation for Molokai

Hello All,



Some exciting news from Think Kayaks with the release of the new Carbon Legend.

I think you'll all agree it's a fantastic looking ski.

Feel free to contact us if you would like any further information.



Cheers.

Few more pics  ;D

Looks good.  What does it weigh? (in Kg, please)

Agree it looks really sharp, but is this a good idea for visibility?  Two of my boats are dark green I and think that both are hard to see against dark water. Concern for rescue and visibility to power craft.

10Kgs Gary.

Safety is an important aspect of every Think craft, that's why there are features on the skis such as the leash point, internal kevlar seams, excellent build quality and bright colours that are clearly visible from rescue craft. Everything is done to ensure that you don't get into trouble because of a breakage with your ski, and in the unlikely event that something does fail, identification is made easier in the event of a rescue.


Of all the carbon skis on the market, this one would probably stand out the most with it's yellow cockpit region.

Hey Stewart
What will the price be and are they doing a carbon EVO? Will the Kevlar version still be available?

Hi Alex,


A carbon Evo isn't in the pipeline just yet.


And yes, the kevlar Legend and Evo will still be available.

Wanted to see if any early adopters of the Legend care to provide an update on their impressions after some time in the saddle. Also was curious about flat water speed. I could see where the hard chines might help catching runs but wondered if the hull shape was as fast as other elite skis in the flats since it's shape seems such a departure from  conventional K1 type shape. Other posts mention that the boat is fast, just wondered if that was specific to downwind or all conditions. Also how much bow volume does the boat have, is it like a V10 or more like a V10L? Thanks for any input.