Home
Content
Archive
Forum
News
Latest News
Events
Australian Surf Ski World Cup
Bridge to Beach (Aus)
Cape Point Challenge (SA)
Dolphin Coast Challenge (SA)
Dragon Run (Hong Kong)
Dubai Shamaal
King of the Harbour (NZ)
Molokai Challenge (Hawaii)
PE to EL Challenge (SA)
Scottburgh to Brighton (SA)
RSA Surfski World Cup (SA)
US Surfski Championships (USA)
World Series
Downwind 2 Dubai Mini Series
Info
Reviews
Sursfki Gear
Paddler Profiles
Rob's Tales
Manufacturers
Tips
Tips: Getting Started
Tips: Training Tips
Tips: Other
Links
Classifieds
Contact Us
Weather
Cape Town
Durban
Langebaan
East London
Knysna
Margate
Mossel Bay
Port Elizabeth
Richards Bay
Advertise
Blogs
Map
Search
Surfski Forum
July 24, 2008, 11:22:08 AM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
: Welcome to the Surfski forum...
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
Surfski Forum
>
General
>
Tips
>
Rudder stall
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Rudder stall (Read 1293 times)
Dave R
Full Member
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 37
Rudder stall
«
on:
March 03, 2008, 01:03:17 PM »
What techniques do you all use to get yourself out of a rudder stall condition? I've had times where everything goes perfect and I've got full control and times that the boat just hooks around and broaches even though it seems like I've got decent speed and should have control. This is on 2 ft bay style waves. Could it be I need to get a little more speed on takeoff and get farther down the wave? I'm open for all discussion on this. Thanks
Logged
nell
Full Member
Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 73
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #1 on:
March 03, 2008, 09:19:54 PM »
Is your rudder actually stalling, or is it just breaking free of the water (and hanging in the air)?
Occurrence of the latter while at an angle to the wave will usually result in a quick broach unless you immediately recognize what is happening and brace or sprint your way out of it. This doesn't usually happen in smaller waves nor in big waves - only in the mid size wind waves.
Logged
Dave R
Full Member
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 37
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #2 on:
March 03, 2008, 10:10:42 PM »
Hard to tell if it's out of the air. The wavelengths are close enough that it could be. I've had the boat broach on me before. This is probably best described as angleing down a wave and hitting the rudder to turn back straight and the boat basically just keeps on turning till it's parallell with the wave. It's very slow and not abrupt like a sudden broach. It feels like the rudder should be in the water at this time, hence I was calling it a stall. I've been wondering what the cause is and how to work on keeping it from happening.
Logged
nell
Full Member
Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 73
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #3 on:
March 03, 2008, 10:53:28 PM »
If it is a stall, it might be more likely to be a boat stall as opposed to a rudder stall. By a boat stall, this is what I mean: You catch a wave and start angling down the face, then you stop paddling, your boat speed has gone from being slightly faster than the speed of the wave to slightly slower than the speed of the wave, so your rudder becomes ineffective, and you slowly keep broaching while you're giving it more rudder in an attempt to straighten out the ski.
The fix is to keep your speed from dropping that much, so keep paddling to get off that wave and over to another one earlier, or maintain a straighter downwind line on that particular wave.
Does this make sense?
Logged
Dave R
Full Member
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 37
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #4 on:
March 03, 2008, 11:40:16 PM »
That makes sense.Thanks. I'm probably just on the edge speedwise when I do this and just hitting the rudder probably makes the situation worse as it adds drag to the boat. Best to do like you said and angle straighter, gain the speed, then transfer over to the next wave while hitting the gas if needed. Reacting earlier to wave changes and anticipating changes is also something I've been working on but have yet to fully grasp.
Logged
Rob Mousley
Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +10/-34
Posts: 302
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #5 on:
March 04, 2008, 02:03:06 AM »
Rudders
can
stall and when they do they cause huge drag while becoming ineffective at turning a boat.
In general flat, narrow rudders are most prone to stalling. The elliptical rudder on the Epic V10 is one of the most effective rudders - look at the profile and you'll see a proper airfoil cross section. Of course if you're going too slowly or the rudder's not in the water, the airfoil section won't matter a damn!
If you're in a situation where the rudder is stalling - hard over but not turning the ski - you can try straightening the rudder momentarily to get the water flowing over it again.
But as Nell said, the key is speed; you have to be going faster than the wave. If the crests of the waves are close together, you may have to go down them diagonally to stop ramming the next wave in front, but then... you need to be going at speed or you will broach!
Logged
Dale Lippstreu
Jr. Member
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 18
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #6 on:
March 05, 2008, 03:38:18 AM »
My downwind paddling has lots of scope for improvement but let me add my 10c worth.
Firstly I don't think its just case of keeping your speed up. The trick according to Oscar Chalupsky is to stay on the top of the run rather running down the face of it. Its a case of power on early and stop paddling sooner. If you stay on top of the run you will find that your rudder remains effective and the tendency to broach is greatly reduced. Charging down the face of the run also means that you have lost the potential energy which will be helpful when you need to accelerate in order to link runs.
Of course its not always possible to stay on the crest of runs so you need to have techniques for steering on the face. Leaning the ski offers highly effective steering on runs but the technique takes a lot of getting used to the because the direction of turn is away from the lean. Aside from being more effective leaning does not result in increased drag as in the case of a deflected rudder.
Logged
Dave R
Full Member
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 37
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #7 on:
March 05, 2008, 10:14:01 AM »
Last time out I did work on leaning the boat and I think it helped quite a bit. I'm looking forward to the wind kicking up again to work on these techniques.
Logged
Tom Hoskin
Jr. Member
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 6
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #8 on:
May 23, 2008, 12:03:42 PM »
You should have plenty of relative speed to the water to activate your rudder when surfing green water. The water is not moving except a bit in a circular direction on a horizontal axis; the top in the direction of the wave. If the wave has broken, and you are surfing on whitewater, then you have little relative speed to activate your rudder unless in penetrates down into green water.
Logged
Ritchie Cunningham
Full Member
Karma: +47/-107
Posts: 27
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #9 on:
May 23, 2008, 01:29:43 PM »
In certain conditions there will be moments when most padders will have negative flow on the rudder at some point or other. An important skill is to have the boat pointed in an optimal direction in relationship with the swell, and this involves anticipating the water in front of the boat. These long slim hulls have the ability to steer themselves more than it might seem. As has already been mentioned, being able to a paddle aggressively down and through swells will help maintain directional stability.
Logged
Paul
Jr. Member
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 12
Re: Rudder stall
«
Reply #10 on:
May 24, 2008, 05:51:20 PM »
I agree with nell's first comment. Your rudder isn't stalling, it's coming free out of the top of the wave. The only way you could be stalling the rudder is if you put in full deflection on the pedal very quickly, like jamming the rudder full over at speed. This isn't very likely. When your rudder breaks free, the boat wants to broach because the crest of the wave is moving the back of the ski forwards while the trough is pulling the front of the ski back, thus yanking the hull out of line.
Short, steep waves are the cause. That's why Epic moved the rudder forward a couple of inches on the V10L and why the straight elliptical rudder is better than a swept rudder - these serve to keep the rudder blade buried.
One thing I've done when I can feel this happening is to tilt the boat away from the wave - like you're leaning towards the downhill face of the wave. This seems to angle the rudder blade back into the wave a little. Sometimes it saves a run, sometimes it don't. The only other way to deal with it is to pull hard on the up-wave side and try to torque the hull back down the face with your body. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.
Logged
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Announcements
-----------------------------
=> Announcements
-----------------------------
General
-----------------------------
=> General
=> Tips
=> Training
=> Boats
===> Epic
===> Fenn
===> Red7
===> Huki
===> Think Kayaks (Evo)
===> Futura
===> Other
=> Equipment
=> Surfski Innovations
=> Suggestions
=> Events
=> Bugs
=> Safety
=> Stories
-----------------------------
Go Local
-----------------------------
=> Africa
===> Cape Town
===> Durban
=> Australia
=> Canada
=> Pacific
=> USA
===> East Coast
===> West Coast
-----------------------------
Find a paddler
-----------------------------
=> Cape Town
===> Atlantic Seaboard
===> Hout Bay
===> Strand
===> Milnerton
===> Fish Hoek
=> China/Japan
Loading...