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July 05, 2008, 12:34:26 AM
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Cadence
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Topic: Cadence (Read 3948 times)
stallion09
Jr. Member
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 20
Cadence
«
on:
July 04, 2007, 07:37:59 PM »
Just curious at what rate other paddlers are rowing at. I am currently rowing a Fenn wing paddle on a OC Sprinter. During a typical training run my cadence is between 70-80 strokes per minute. In flatwater on this plastic yak my avg speed is about 5 mph. I would love to hear from other paddlers.
Thanks
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Thanks
My surfski blog
http://ct-surfski.blogspot.com/
Rob Mousley
Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +10/-34
Posts: 296
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #1 on:
July 05, 2007, 05:57:50 AM »
Paddling hard, I do about 45 strokes per minute (around 11.5-12km/h) - counting on one side only. Sprinting, I get up to about 55 or 60 (13-14km/h).
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MFB
Sr. Member
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 151
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #2 on:
July 06, 2007, 11:18:00 PM »
Can you guys point me where to get a metronome? That can surely help set and keep the pace while training.
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Andrew Hayden
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 2
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #3 on:
July 07, 2007, 04:38:29 AM »
At good music shops you should be able to get small battery operated ones . Mine is about 9x5 cm. I put it in a zip lock bag and take out on the water. Leave a bit of excess air in it so it will float if it comes adrift. It has buttons to adjust rating.
They are not very expensive. Don't get ripped off, some places try to charge you $AUS 90 for what should cost about $aus 10.
Andrew
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Dean Jordaan
Full Member
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Posts: 29
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #4 on:
July 08, 2007, 07:56:19 AM »
I didn't know what a metronome was. Here is what Wikipedia says:
"A metronome is any device that produces a regulated audible and/or visual pulse, usually used to establish a steady beat, or tempo, measured in beats-per-minute (BPM) for the performance of musical compositions. It is an invaluable practice tool for musicians that goes back hundreds of years.
Musicians use metronomes when they practice in order to maintain an established tempo; by adjusting the metronome, facility is achieved at varying tempi. Even in pieces that do not require strict time (see rubato), a metronome is used to give an indication of the general tempo intended by the composer. Many pieces provide a tempo indication at the top of the manuscript."
How do you use one while paddling and to what end?
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Alain Jaques
Administrator
Full Member
Karma: +5/-8
Posts: 89
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #5 on:
July 08, 2007, 12:04:40 PM »
I must say this post has got me baffled too. I have never been concerned about cadence or keeping a particular cadence. The thing with surfskiing is that the conditions are usually changing all the time so keeping a constant cadence would seem counter productive. Upwind my cadence slows while downwind I vary between paddling as fast as I possibly can to just sitting there with my blade skimming the water.
I'm no expert though. How can a metronome improve your paddling?
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MFB
Sr. Member
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 151
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #6 on:
July 08, 2007, 10:35:21 PM »
I suppose using a stroke meter or a metronome for that purpose only suits those paddling in flat or calm waters. Having a steady stroke rate in downwind conditions don't apply as you're pretty much surfing.
I also started using this with our dragonboat team. Helps build efficiency in every stroke and focus on technique. In surfski or k1, I get to paddle at a constant rate while trying to keep a steady speed and relaxing when I can to have my heart rate controlled too. Again, this only applies on flat or calm waters.
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Rob Mousley
Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +10/-34
Posts: 296
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #7 on:
July 10, 2007, 12:23:19 AM »
Quote from: stallion09 on July 04, 2007, 07:37:59 PM
Just curious at what rate other paddlers are rowing at. I am currently rowing a Fenn wing paddle on a OC Sprinter. During a typical training run my cadence is between 70-80 strokes per minute. In flatwater on this plastic yak my avg speed is about 5 mph. I would love to hear from other paddlers.
Thanks
Check out our video clip of Hank McGregor taking off at the Grand Prix relay, the day before the ARB Surf Ski World Cup. He's got a pretty high stroke rate right there.
http://surfski.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=463&Itemid=98
107 strokes per minute!
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postal256
Jr. Member
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 7
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #8 on:
July 11, 2007, 09:07:20 AM »
I've used a waterproof metronome (meant for swimming) when paddling. I lost it recently, but it worked great when doing K1 workouts on flatwater. It worked especially well for slow cadences, for instance doing 60 spm technique work. Without the metronome I'd almost certainly pick my cadence up too high. It is called TempoTrainer by Finis.
«
Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 09:09:50 AM by postal256
»
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Rob Mousley
Administrator
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Karma: +10/-34
Posts: 296
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #9 on:
July 11, 2007, 09:26:07 AM »
I've it quite effective to count my strokes and regulate my cadence that way.
I use a Garmin forerunner 305 and configure it to show the time in big digits - I know I should be doing a count of about 45 per minute (counting one side only) if I'm doing good solid strokes.
When paddling hard, I'll get to 50 counts per minute - if I count to 100 I know I'm within a couple of seconds of two minutes.
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stallion09
Jr. Member
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 20
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #10 on:
July 11, 2007, 10:47:22 AM »
Rob,
Just curious what your flatwater speed is with that cadence.
Thanks
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Thanks
My surfski blog
http://ct-surfski.blogspot.com/
MFB
Sr. Member
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 151
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #11 on:
July 11, 2007, 10:18:12 PM »
Quote from: postal256 on July 11, 2007, 09:07:20 AM
I've used a waterproof metronome (meant for swimming) when paddling. I lost it recently, but it worked great when doing K1 workouts on flatwater. It worked especially well for slow cadences, for instance doing 60 spm technique work. Without the metronome I'd almost certainly pick my cadence up too high. It is called TempoTrainer by Finis.
I looked into this TempoTrainer by Finis online. Unfortunately, I've read a lot of negative comments too such as terrible battery life. Its disposable as battery is not replaceable. It dies after 3 months, kinda expensive for that shelf life.
Im currently using DaCapo by Rogame for my Treo. Since I already bring my mobile, it just works fine. However, radio should be turned off to ensure the beats are accurate.
Its best if Garmin can just incorporate this with the forerunner.
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Paul
Jr. Member
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 12
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #12 on:
July 11, 2007, 10:57:16 PM »
When I was starting out I was really worried about my stroke rate because it seemed like mine was much slower than everyone else's and I figured I was doing something wrong. 5 years later my stroke rate is still slower than the guys I paddle with and I get compliments on how smooth I look (at least to them!).
I think stroke rate should be about the last thing you worry about, either fast or slow. Good technique, with full rotation, forward catch, and a good glide and your stroke rate will be perfect for whatever conditions you are paddling in. My rate varies all over the place depending on the situation, even in flat water. Forget about it!
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Rob Mousley
Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +10/-34
Posts: 296
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #13 on:
July 12, 2007, 12:53:19 AM »
Quote from: Paul on July 11, 2007, 10:57:16 PM
I think stroke rate should be about the last thing you worry about, either fast or slow. Good technique, with full rotation, forward catch, and a good glide and your stroke rate will be perfect for whatever conditions you are paddling in. My rate varies all over the place depending on the situation, even in flat water. Forget about it!
I agree - mostly. All I would say is that a stroke that is too fast is less effective than slower, stronger pull.
Focussing on a smoother stroke with a good reach to the catch will automatically slow your stroke anyway.
But the actual numbers i.e. strokes per minute, I agree are IMHO pretty much meaningless and depend on the paddler, length of paddle, conditions, etc.
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Darrell K. Pearse
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 2
Re: Cadence
«
Reply #14 on:
July 13, 2007, 10:37:50 AM »
I have used the metronome as a coaching aid. Due to the lack of having a coach when I am on the water. I don't really have a set schedule for paddling.
The metronome can be used a number of ways, one is to get the stroke rate up, and the other is maintain a certain rate.
One workout is to keep a higher than "my" normal stroke rate over a certain distance. i.e. 2 kms @ 90. This forces me to stay at this rate without having my coach do it.
Another is set it at a slower rate say 60 and use power strokes. Full rotation and full leg push / pull. When used with a Garmin you can actually see what works and what doesn't in real time.
I find it a very handy training tool.
Darrell
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