Advanced Surf Ski for a beginner

  • rhainan
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7 years 2 months ago - 7 years 2 months ago #27841 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic Advanced Surf Ski for a beginner
Lakeman, if you truly are in Charleston South Carolina then you can't be more than an hour from testing some the best surf skis in the world at Epic Kayaks corporate headquarters.

Epic Kayaks
645 Marina Drive
Charleston SC. 29492
843-884-4601

Eric, Waylon or Liz should be able to assist you.
Last edit: 7 years 2 months ago by rhainan.

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  • photofr
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7 years 2 months ago #27842 by photofr
You'll want to see the good folks over: eliteoceansports.com
They'll have plenty to demo - worth every single once of fuel

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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7 years 2 months ago #27843 by LakeMan
I live up in the mountains but as suggested I listed the closest coastal city. I'll have to take a trip which is a few hours drive. What stinks is that I was just there three weeks ago but it was a family trip not a me trip. I had no idea Epic was there. Thanks for the info.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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  • MCImes
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7 years 2 months ago - 7 years 2 months ago #27845 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Advanced Surf Ski for a beginner
My personal antidote allpes here.

I have been lusting after a ski for about 3 years after having one ofthe funnest paddles of my life in a friends v10 double. For reference, I came from paddling north American tripping and racing canoes, both solo and tandem.

Money is tight, but I found a steal of a deal on a 2006 V10 performance. Its the cheapest ski ive ever seen in 3 years of searching, and it was only 2 hours away so I snapped it up immediately. I live in New England and got the ski in early december. I've only been able to paddle it about 7 times so far, and have fallen in 5 of 7 paddles.
In the mean time, I do not have a double blade backgound (all previous paddling was with a bent shaft canoe paddle from ZRE), so now I am climbing the relatively steep learning curve of considering:
1. Balance
2. Stroke mechanics
3. Torso rotation
4. Leg Drive
5. Steering (suprisingly steering adds a lot for me to think about. Im not used to having a rudder or thinking much about my feet when paddling)

Anyways, Its a lot to have in my mind at all times as a beginner, and although I am fine with swimming until I learn my balance (a dry suit helps), Im sure I would develop a better stroke faster with a less tippy boat.

I want a Stellar SR, V10 Sport, or V8 pro, but as I said, money doesnt allow so Im stuck with the V10 until I can trade it or improve my balance. Its a great boat and smoking fast, just 1 to 1.5 steps above my current stability capability. I know I would probably have more fun on a 19" ski.

So there is a lot to be said for non-elite boats. I think most semi-competent paddlers could start in a V8 Pro or 19-20" Ski, not a 20-24"er though.

Also, if anyone in the New England area wants to trade their 19-20" ski (SR, V10S, V8pro, ect) for my V10, shoot me an email. Its my user name @live.com
Last edit: 7 years 2 months ago by MCImes.

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7 years 2 months ago #27846 by LakeMan
MCI, thanks for your testimony. Your patience has seemed to pay off. By the sound if it you'll get the balance down and love the 10 even more. My hat goes off to you for getting on the water in the cold New England winters. It's bad enough down south and I don't think any set or dry suit makes it a comfortable experience.

As for the length. I think all a longer boat does is help it track better. My understanding is hull shape and width is what makes it stable. Too much math for me so I'm sure some will differ.

Thanks

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 2 months ago #27847 by mamaru
Hello altogether,

what about this as an interim solution? Something alike could easily be built with some wood and swim-noodles/ a pair of empty plastic bottles on each side:

Huki Gull Wing

Have fun!

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7 years 2 months ago #27848 by LakeMan
Just think of the money I'll be saving! Thanks a ton.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 2 months ago - 7 years 2 months ago #27850 by Cryder
Just skimmed the responses and I am sure you're getting some good advice, but thought I'd offer an insight as someone who teaches technique on a weekly basis to a wide range of paddlers from total beginners to cross over athletes to advanced ski paddlers.

I've noticed people with sea kayaking background have the hardest time transitioning to surfski. By far. Not even close. Those who seem to pick up ski paddling the fastest are often non-paddlers, followed by outrigger and SUP paddlers. Women in particular seem to get it way faster and have a CG advantage over most men.

I've thought a lot about this, and I suspect that when learning a sport, it makes a biomechanical and psychological imprint. Your brain wires itself to equate dynamic sensations with biomechanical response, and it makes an imprint that your brain will automatically revert to the next time you paddle (remember that balance is a learned skill). Sea kayakers in particular learn to balance primarily with their hips based on the generous stability of the boat reinforced by edging the boat with knees apart and putting pressure on the hull that is generally quite hard to make move (it takes leverage to overcome the weight and primary stability). Good surfski paddlers learn to balance with their hands (think of someone walking down a slack line) reinforced by keeping the knees together while maintaining pressure on the footplate, the back of the bucket and the face of the paddle simultaneously. The emphasis is on connection with the water as one unit and limiting the amount of inputs that the ski is receiving from the paddler (skis are generally very, very responsive so even a slightly different input has an exaggerated response).

And then there are the mechanics of the stroke... as everything right in a ski is slightly different than a sea kayak, just enough to make it insanely hard for a sea kayaker to unlearn the existing imprint.

It is possible to start with a ski that is over your pay grade, but you'll have some things to overcome and an elite ski will only make it that much harder in my opinion. If you are hard headed like me, and love anything really hard you can certainly do it (I wouldn't paddle if it wasn't insanely hard to do well).

Either way, suggest you get some really good technique work done as a foundation to start the process of balance through concepts that focus on your connection to the water. If you can travel to one of the bigger race events in the states, the pros often do great technique clinics, and will do one on one sessions if you book far enough out.

Cheers,

Nicholas Cryder
Last edit: 7 years 2 months ago by Cryder.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Uffilation

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7 years 2 months ago #27852 by LakeMan
Thank you for your input Cryder. I can't disagree with you (because you're right and that would be stupid) but I will say that I have paddled a ski once and did not go swimming. I'm sure my stroke will need to change and so will my center on balance but I look at those as a challenge, not a handicap. This will most likely be a lone sport for me with an occasional race. I have years to practice and like you I don't give up easy. Even if I snagged up a V14 (which I'm not) I'd learn to paddle it. I am learning from this post and appreciate everyone's input.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 2 months ago #27853 by LakeMan
For flat water, what material would you recommend? Weight is a factor but mostly in moving the ski from garage to car to water. I don't need the fastest materials although it would be nice.


"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 2 months ago #27854 by kwolfe
Both my Epic skis are in their performance layup with is a blend of fiberglass and carbon fiber. Each ski weighs in at about 33lbs. I think for many, this work great because the ski is manageable from a loading and unloading perspective and it's a tough combo for those of us who tend to bump into things or aren't on sand.

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  • rhainan
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7 years 2 months ago - 7 years 2 months ago #27855 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic Advanced Surf Ski for a beginner
I'll echo kwolfe on the Performance layup. It generally provides the most bang for the buck. I will say that I feel the general perception that Performance is more durable than Ultra is exaggerated. In the situations I have been in that have caused damage to my boats, the particular layup would not have made a difference. Most everything else is just cosmetic.

I would recommend buying the lightest layup you can afford. In the water I do not really feel the weight difference. Off the water is what counts. I am surprised at how much difference 3-4 kilos makes carrying and loading/unloading. I guess lighter boats have made me soft. Now that I primarily paddle a V10GT everything else feels like I am carrying concrete. When I load up the V7 or V5 I feel like I just took a big dose of kryptonite and struggle (and those would have been lighter boats than anything I was paddling 6 years ago).
Last edit: 7 years 2 months ago by rhainan.

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7 years 2 months ago #27856 by LakeMan
Good advice guys. I'm with you on durability and weight issues. 33 lbs is definitely manageable so it doesn't have to 24 and I wouldn't want 55. I understand each manufacturer has different processes and materials and I've also discovered they don't have the best websites to explain them. These companies need to utilize YouTube to promote their products. 99% of surf ski videos are guys paddling boats which doesn't educate people like me one bit. Why don't these companies make some good promotional videos? Makes no sense to me. I'd make a video for every boat in the line and show how it's designed and manufactured. And I'd promote accessories. All they need is a camera and some inexpensive editing software like Camtasia. It isn't rocket science.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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  • photofr
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7 years 2 months ago #27862 by photofr
LakeMan: I agree that manufacturers could do more to promote and showcase their products. The biggest problem is a vicious circle: there aren't that many users.

Take France: about 66 million people, and 660 surfski paddlers (probably less than 50 who paddle 52 weeks a year).

Making videos requires a budget, which requires believing that marketing could be beneficial. Heck, there are times when you can't find 4 images of a surfski or a paddle. There are even times when you can't find any written text defining and describing the particularities of a surfski or paddle.

I've tried to do my part on sharing: text, equipment photos, action photos, and even virtual tours, but to be fair: no one really wants to flip the bill.

My belief is simple:
Nothing will replace trying a ski or trying a paddle in the real World. However, when you don't have a choice and cannot try a certain product, getting written descriptions, specs, pictures, and/or videos can and will make a huge difference between a purchase, and a non-purchase.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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7 years 2 months ago #27864 by LakeMan
Ludovic, I couldn't agree with you more especially as someone trying to learn about the sport and it's equipment. These manufacturers need to create better websites (better doesn't cost more), get in forums such as this one getting involved in the discussions and create there own videos for posting on YouTube and Vimeo (also use other free media). Making informative videos isn't what it used to be. No more film. With digital cameras and software it's extremely simple and costs almost nothing. They don't need to hire a production crew, just do it themselves. Camera, edit, upload. We're not looking for academy award cinematography here, just information. I do it for a living therefore it can't be rocket science. I'm not that smart.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 1 month ago #27956 by mckengmsurfski
LakeMan, if you've not yet made it to the Charleston area to try some skis, you definitely should make the trip. Our company, Eliteoceansports, is here and we import Nelo and Think surfskis, as well as Jantex Paddles and Mocke gear. And Epic HQ is also located here, so you can try all of the skis of 3 of the 5 major manufacturers in one trip and make an educated decision yourself.
You can contacted me directly via email through our website, www.eliteoceansports.com and we can make arrangements. We also have several fun races down this way throughout the year, so you can get a taste for the surfski scene here this coming season as well.
Good luck with your search and let me know if you want to come down and try some skis.

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7 years 1 month ago #27958 by LakeMan
Thanks for the invitation Mark. As soon as I can I'll make my way there. Is your website the best place to get information on local events and races?

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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7 years 1 month ago #27967 by mckengmsurfski
There are several good races in the region. There's our race, The North Shore Cup (October), the Southeast Paddlesport Series of races (May-Nov), The Carolina Cup (April), The Chucktown Showdown (Sept), The Palmetto Paddle Race (July), Chattajack (October)... and plenty more I'm sure I'm leaving out! I tried to attach links to all of these but the forum keeps flagging it as spam if include the links... You can also find lots of races on Paddle Guru.

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7 years 1 month ago #27972 by LakeMan
Thanks Mark. I'll look into them.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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6 years 10 months ago #28818 by LakeMan
After all the months of reading everything i could on the sport of surfskis I ended up snagging a Think Uno Max Elite for a good price and didn't have to take a day driving to the coast to get it.
So far i have been having a blast trying to stay upright and trying to go fast. My sea kayak was tippy but nothing like this. Getting back in has not been easy but it motivates me stay in the seat. The ski is light and fast making paddling almost effortless.
I want to thank all of you for your input directly and indirectly to me. Your experience has been very beneficial.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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