Ocean ski for the smaller paddler

9 years 11 months ago #10073 by Webby
Ocean ski for the smaller paddler was created by Webby
HI,

I have been paddling for over a year and a half now on an Epic V8 ski and I wish to upgrade to new boat. Looking for any advice on a ski that would suit a smaller paddler. I am 5,9 (174cm)tall and weigh 75 kilos. I have competed in as few races with reasonable results for a beginner/intermediate on a entry level ski.Any advice would be much appreciated.Epic have a V10L and Stellar have the Stellar elite small but cannot find many reviews.
Cheers!!!


Cheers!

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9 years 11 months ago #10075 by antonsa
The V10L is a great ski - I paddle a performance V10L and I weigh10 kg more than you! It handles my weight easily - fantastic in runs and really fast. You might find it a bit tippy with your weight thuogh. The ski is comfortable and a pleasure to paddle. I have not paddled the Stellar - but it looks good on specs and review.

Anton
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9 years 11 months ago #10082 by robin.mousley
I was thoroughly beaten by a 75kg paddler last night who was on a Carbonology Vault.

Carbonology have two intermediate skis - the Zest and the Vault. They're shorter skis (don't have the exact specs) and lower volume, ideal for lighter paddlers.

I was paddling a Swordfish and the Vault definitely seemed to have the edge going downwind.

You'll find the Vault a little tippy after the V8! But that probably goes for most skis.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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9 years 11 months ago #10084 by Kayaker Greg
Well you now know where to look for the specs.

Webby, I paddle the Stellar SES, its definatly an elite ski and a bit much for me in certain conditions. Its great on flat and great in rough water, where it gets me is in flat water with a little bit of bump. Its quite a deep ski and rocks around some on the initial stability until the water gets a bit rougher which brings in the secondary stability.
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9 years 11 months ago #10086 by wesley
go to SurfskiRacing.com for my complete review on the SES if you have not already.

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.
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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #10088 by Kayaker Greg
Wesley, does the SEL have the same low hump as the SES? And how does the bucket width compare? I have the early model bucket in my SES and its a perfect fit for me.
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9 years 11 months ago #10090 by wesley
Yes, very low hump like SES.

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.
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9 years 11 months ago #10094 by sylv1
Hi,
I'm a light weight paddler (1.76/68kg) & i'm bought the swordfish since 6 month. It's be perfect for me, stable (my first boat was a synergy) with a low wind drag. The low volume in nose & back could explain this, every intermediate boat made like this are good for us. The EPIC V10l could be ok, i read in one topic's of this forum the custo Kayaks Focus work well with light weight paddler.
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9 years 11 months ago #10096 by AGA
I'd also suggest getting a ski in one of the lighter weight layups.

The weight of the ski you're looking to propel with your 75kg needs to be at the low end of the weight spectrum so that you have a paddler weight to ski weight ratio that's commensurate with the ratio enjoyed by larger paddlers.

In simple terms, a 75kg runner wearing 10kg shoes is going to run faster and with more ease than a 75kg runner wearing 16kg shoes.

The great sensation of paddling a lighter layup ski will more than compensate for any cost differential.
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9 years 11 months ago #10097 by kiwial
Hiya, I am a 6'1" 75-78kg paddler and have raced the Vault. IMHO the Vault was fantastic! definately tippier than the other intermediate skis, but in a good way. Plus it's shorter length makes it a very predictable boat, my only bug bear was the volume in the bucket meant that when it swamped it took a while to empty, but it only swamped the once so wasn't really an issue. Give it a try, I am sure you will be impressed
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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #10101 by Marieski
Sorry AGA. I strongly disagree. As a small paddler, I will never buy another carbon ski. What you lose in stability by being lighter and stiffer increases the lighter you are.

The V10S and the Think Evo are both great beginner/intermediate skis and I would recommend them highly but not especially for light people. The V10L is supposedly for lighter smaller people but the only difference between that and the V10 is the lower deck height and the cockpit being further forward. I found for me it still behaved like a big ski.

The main small person problems to me, apart from sitting higher in the water, are the bow length, height and volume because these make the ski harder to control up and across wind.

The skis that address this are the Vault, the Swordfish and the SES. I think Nelo also have one. The Vault is shorter than skis in it's class, which really helps. The main problems I found with it were the ease of remount and that I just couldn't get it to go fast on the day. The Swordfish is the boat I would recommend. It will obviously be tippier than the V8, but not so you won't get used to it within 10 or so hours. It will go fast enough and it will handle well. The SES is tippier again . Owen has it as his second skinniest ski, but it will be far from the second tippiest, which may be because of it's depth and has fantastic secondary stability. Despite it's depth, the bucket sides are low, which makes remounting really easy. It has a low hump, for better leg movement.It is the best specifically small person ski I have found, but possibly too big a step from the V8.


But if you are small, don't buy a light ski.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7
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9 years 11 months ago #10102 by Kayaker Greg
Yeah the V10L feels like a big ski to me as well, not so the SES.
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9 years 11 months ago #10106 by Coffeephix
Strongly agree, I'm around 68kgs & found the Carbon Evo (which I loved in flat water with no wind) to light & flighty for me & really struggled when it was windy. I have a glass swordfish now which is perfect. Low volume, smaller bucket which suits the smaller paddler.

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9 years 11 months ago #10108 by Martin
Hi Webby.

Nice you are progressing up the ski ranks. Most start on the wider boats then soup up to the quicker boats. I have had the V10L in both ultra and elite lay-up. Both were nice but given I am 74kg, small hips and 178cm my biggest gripe was the cockpit. Its too big for the smaller paddler. I had to pad the sides up to feel more snug. If they produced a smaller more snug cockpit it would be worth looking at. Likewise for the sport version has this issue.

I have paddled the carbonology vault and have found it a fantastic boat. fast and at 5.95m will fit in any standard garage. They are being seen more and more on the Perth scene and East coast. You can get it in glass, hybrid ( carbon + glass/kevlar) or full carbon. You will find it more tippy than your current boat but thats how these things go. You will get te hang of it in no time.....no matter what boat you get. Not really worth getting full carbon though. I'm on a carbonology atom.

Also been in the swordfish and found it to be a great boat, but again the bucket is too big. It seems that the great majority of ski manufacturers are faced with this issue ie that is ski is great but bucket too wide. If they made the seat a few cm narrower on both sides then that would be a game changer.....unless you are blessed ( or cursed) with hips that fit in the first place.

I also have seen the paddling greats ( Tim Jacobs ) paddling the sides of his Nelo seat with foam, so this issue is common.

Good luck
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9 years 11 months ago #10109 by Marieski
Hey Martin

I absolutely loved the Atom and would buy one except for my complete inability to remount it. Any hints?

I agree about the narrow bucket too. The padding helps but isn't remotely as good as a bucket that actually fits. Makes a huge difference to connection to the ski and hence stability.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7
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9 years 11 months ago #10110 by AGA
I recognise many paddlers may consider that greater weight in or on a ski could aid stability, especially in tough conditions.

To date, however I've found the opposite, with a lighter ski being easier to manipulate, and the ease of acceleration improving the ability to attack the conditions (rather than be pushed around by them).

So while I appreciate there's two views on this, I'm sticking with my lighter ski for lighter paddler theory...until I get knocked around too much in some heavy conditions.

Perhaps the question for a separate topic is whether greater weight on a ski aids stability or not. If it does, there shoudd be a raft of evidence that heavier paddlers are consistently more stable than lighter paddlers.
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9 years 11 months ago #10122 by antonsa
Hi

I have designed and built surfskis over the past 35 years.

Stability is a function of many things:

1. Seat height in relation to the water line - the lower the seat the better the balance
2. Amount of wetted area - the more ski below the water line the more stable
3. The more rigid the ski the less stable - flex creates rocker which allows the seat area to sink further into the water - reducing the seat height and increasing stability
4. The more rocker the more stable (see 3 above) and also ski is less likely to be affected by cross chop.
5. Cockpit size - if you are too loose in the cockpit then balance will be affected as it will be if you have 20 litres of water splashing around! So foam up your cockpit for a snug fit.
5.Width of the ski - this only plays a role if the other factors above are taaken into account!


So for a light person a buoyant ski such as the v10L will feel unstable and even more so if it is of rigid construction. Ski weight is a very small factor in balance - say 5kg dif in an overall weight 100 kg. Yes a light rigid ski will accelerate faster and ride might be better but stability is not improved.

I would rather paddle a 16kg rigid ski than a flexible 10kg light ski!

Which ski to paddle?

Try them all find one that is comfortable and that you can sprint 50 strokes in without a wobble!
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9 years 11 months ago #10128 by Martin
Hey Marieski

It's hard to say which technique is best. What doesn't work for me is the side sadle remount as the seat is too deep.

When I have to remount one of the things that you have to do is stay calm. In rough water all sorts of things are going through your mind.....loosing too much time if in a race,whats under you etc. If you take your time the atom remount will be fine. Best to point the ski downwind or into the wind if you can. I personally have to unclip my leg leash which is easy as I have the quick release set-up. One light pull and its off. I have to straddle the Atom and slip into the seat. Not so straight forward in real life but this works for me. Not to say I get it right first time either.

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9 years 11 months ago #10132 by Marieski
Yep. The sidesaddle definitely doesn't work. Do you do anything in particular with the paddle? I have had the demonstration with the paddle held acoss the boat level with the footstraps but I can't hold it like this, so have always held it along the far side of the hull. With the Atom, I would get up on the ski, then invariably fall over the other side. No matter which way I point the boat to the weather.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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9 years 11 months ago #10167 by Martin
Hi Marieski

You do have the paddle across the rails. Not too close to the pedals though. All you want to do here is hold it loosely with the thumb and forefinger of your left hand ( if you are mounting from the left side of the boat). The rest of the fingers and base of thumb grip the rail. The paddle will likely be more diagonal over the rails.

I find that the paddle really helps if you get in if you are a little wobbly. It does help to actually have someone show you how its done. Quite hard to explain it without demonstrating.

Martin

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