Warranty on skis, online complaints, etc

7 years 5 months ago #15184 by EK Sydney
Wow, vegetarian politics make the spats on here look like a love in. Strangely, there haven't been many cross words on this site for a while, what has changed...?
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7 years 5 months ago #15186 by robin.mousley

see this link for the provocative nature of the video maker who is obviously not about building positive relationships:
anthonycolpo.com/more-angry-nonsense-fro...rianrider-johnstone/


Oh man - that's hysterical!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 5 months ago #15201 by CyberSki
I am sure this thread isn't dead yet - but I think I have learned a few things by reading the entries:

1. An Internet connection + YouTube account can be as dangerous as a .44 magnum and entertaining as a Phil Mickelson meltdown at the US Open.

2. I think I am more than safe assured that my new V8 Ultra will be well-made and backed up by Epic and my retailer, and

3. The last person I want to engage in blog-warfare is "AC" and I will never go Vegan.

Fenn Swordfish and Epic Midwing.

Past skis include Stellar SR and SEL, KC Zeplin, Think EVO, and in-between version of Epic V8 Ultra. Jantex Gamma is my sword of pain..though my elbow may force me to a smaller blade now. :-(
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7 years 5 months ago #15207 by Kiwibruce
Here is the link to the Australian law regarding warranty claims , every one should be aware of their rights , customers and sellers.

www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemI...%20and%20refunds.pdf

He really does eat 30 bananas a day!!!

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7 years 5 months ago #15237 by AdamV10L
A Naturopath once told me that you are what you eat.

Does that make this guy a banana???

Best argument for a balanced diet I have ever seen!

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7 years 5 months ago #15238 by Kiwibruce
He eats 30 bananas a day , so that makes him "bananas".

Is RAB actually this "Duranianrider" aka "Adelaide Andy" aka "Vadmuir"? This extremist vegan group seem to like to create false identities and infiltrate web sites !
They obviously have world domination in mind and this is just the 1st step.

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7 years 5 months ago #15239 by Michael Smedley
Regardless of what this guy eats and opinions are, the question is does the boat have soft spots on it or not? It's clear it has cracks on the plug.

Personally I would not like to be a couple of kms offshore in 25knts with cracks below the water line. Even if they appear to look harmless.

If the boat has soft spots, it's a warranty. It should go to an independent repairer that will work to satisfy the customer. It should not go to a recommended repairer that has the dealers pocket in mind, (with a "see if we can get away with that attitude")

I don't know the guy in the Tube either, however, if what he is saying is true then it should be taken care of. It would not be the first boat that has failed from a manufacturer. I know of more than a few locally that have failed from numerous brands.

This is not the way I would have handled the situation, however that said if you are unhappy with products or services these days you have a right to leave feed back. Even if you purchase a crap $5 car charger off Ebay and it breaks after 3 days as they always do, you have the right to post negative feed back.

As for slander, if its true it's not slander. This Tube would only be slander if the whole story was fabricated. I guess the only people who know this answer are the parties directly involved.

I prefer the independent reviews (providing they are credible) and value them more than a manufacturers review. If we we listened to only manufactures reviews then we would find that just about every boat on the market was fast on the flat, great downwind, surprising stable, easy to mount and very comfortable.

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15240 by barrypaddle1

Michael Smedley wrote: Regardless of what this guy eats and opinions are, the question is does the boat have soft spots on it or not? It's clear it has cracks on the plug.


I agree thats what the topic should be sticking with.

Michael Smedley wrote: As for slander, if its true it's not slander. This Tube would only be slander if the whole story was fabricated. I guess the only people who know this answer are the parties directly involved.


The only slander i see is by people jumping to assumptions and following like a pack.

SO as a potential V12 customer, are there issues with the V12 Ultra layup?

If there are problems what has the service been like from Epic Australia in dealing with warranty issues? eg runaround or exceptional.

FWIW If the youtube video is correct in regards to soft spots then the ski should have been replaced!

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7 years 5 months ago #15241 by Kiwibruce
If there is a genuine problem with the ski and you are unable to get satisfaction from the seller/manufacturer then you can take them to "Dept of Fair Trading" Seems to me that would be the smart option, not launch that video.

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7 years 5 months ago #15242 by tony h
that about sums it up Kiwi bruce - forum chosen seems inappropriate to deal with this issue.

i have a 8-10yr ultra layup v10 sport, that is still fine with no soft spots.
so don't think the ultra layup is problematic!
it does suffer from impact damage, so believe the issue being lost here is that these alleged soft spots, that can't be verified on the video, may be as a result of impact damage at some stage which again can't be verified.

soft spots occur across all brands for a variety of reasons, see link below
www.surfski.info/forum/21-fenn/15232-att...sh-owners.html#15236

epic seem to have a clear warranty policy
www.epickayaks.com/products/Warranty%20Policy

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 5 months ago #15243 by Metro
BP1 and Michael Smedley -

You guys are probably missing the real context here. We are all fairly certain (definitely certain?) that the boat in question belongs or belonged to RAB, a former prolific poster to this website. This Durian Rider character, who knows RAB, is doing nothing more than spewing RAB's old unhelpful venom. Plainly, RAB has some issues. At some point, you lose credibilty on a subject. For instance, Lance Armstrong is probably not the best person to speak about fairness in sports. Likewise, RAB and his minion are not the people to be speaking about Epic boats.

If somebody else has a problem with an Epic boat or Epic Australia, then let's discuss that. (Personally I think Epic Australia does a very good job.) But in my opinion this hack video by RAB should not form the basis for any rational discussion on Epic or warranty claims in general.
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7 years 5 months ago #15244 by Sandy
C'mon RAB ole boy , cat got yer tongue ?

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7 years 5 months ago #15245 by Sandy
Sorry , kinda boring and thought I'd stir the pot !

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15246 by Kayaker Greg
Is it just me that would like to see a response from Epic Australia that might put this to rest? Either its a stitch up and they have never seen the ski, or they have and what is their take on what they have observed? Seems pretty simple, rather than let the speculation continue.

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7 years 5 months ago #15247 by Michael Smedley
Iike i said i personally would not handle it this way.

The small claims court process is cheap and easy to do in Australia. Your case can be heard without the need for lawyers etc. If its as cut and dry as the Tube suggests then you have to wonder why he has not chosen this option.

Same goes for Epic Australia. If someone fabricated a story about my company like this I would have them in court quicker than you could say V12.

Sure, the guy in the Tube does come across like a bit of a goose and Im no big fan of RAB on the forum either. But lets not let personal opinion get in the way. Whats right is right.

From what we can see the boat has cracks around the plug. Who thinks this ok on a newish boat.? And if this is typical then at least we have learned something. The forum has served a purpose.

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7 years 5 months ago #15249 by tony h
Hi MS, as mentioned earlier in the forum the cracks around the anderson bailer are minor from a functional perspective.
My new v14 has them & my 1yr old v10 double has them.
They occur with some movement at the anderson minibailer fit in the hull - suspect this may be why epic have made there own which will be released shortly.
Suspect if it bothered me I could take it to our epic dealer & am certain they would repair it under warranty!
No great issue there.
The real issue of worry is the soft spots which are all hearsay at this stage.
When Rob contacted Durian rider he would not release the ski serial number & that adds fuel to the perspective that this is all about slander & not addressing the true issues.
As I understood RAB became nasty when epic would not give him a new boat as the damage had been caused by him?????

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 5 months ago #15250 by Metro
The Epic dealer did respond, in a thread that was started by RAB and later removed by Rob because it just didn't contribute anything to this former (although I guess I'm speaking for Rob there). For those of us who read the thread before it was removed, it was basically the beginning of the end for RAB on this forum. He looked like a vindicative fool. The Epic dealer's response was compelling.

If I were Epic I certainly would not respond to RAB or Minion. In any event, what is there to respond to? Watch the video again. We have some surperficial cracks at the bailer and three supposed soft spots that are not visible at all. If you have a soft spot it would be easy enough to show with a camera - push on the hull and your fingers either go in, or they do not. Minion rubs his hand over the boat like he's massaging it and says, "ooh, there's another soft spot". Putting aside the fact that that phrase brings back some bad memories from my early dating years, how unpersuasive is it? Also, I would not expect Epic to waste any time or effort suing these idiots. I think RAB and Minion are a good couple and we can all just pretty much let them be.

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7 years 5 months ago #15253 by robin.mousley
The thread that I removed had stuff from RAB, making comments about Epic and then flames from the rest of the community directed at RAB.

The thread where the Epic dealer responded to RAB directly still exists somewhere in the forum...

I agree that Epic would be on a hiding to nothing by replying on the forum. It would simply degenerate into a tit for tat, he said, I said slinging match.

But I'll repeat what I posted earlier just so everyone knows.

When the video appeared, I did some research on durian rider and found that while he has a massive presence (and not a particularly inspiring one) on the internet and he has a lot to say about cycling and vegetables, I could find no mention in all of his copious outpourings on the web of ever having paddled.

Durian rider knows RAB and may have worked with him.

RAB threatened to use social media to "get back at" Epic.

Taking the video at face value I offered to help Durian Rider with his supposed issue. He refused to tell me who at Epic he'd dealt with and he ignored requests for the ski's serial number which would enable Epic to track the ski and find out who it had been sold to and by whom. Epic had never heard of him when the video surfaced.

Durian rider posted the video on Youtube, not just under his own account but under a number of accounts with variations of the spelling of his account name - in other words he tried to make sure that it would appear in search results.

It's pretty obvious that either he or RAB clicked on it 2,000 times to make it appear that it had been watched by lots of people, because it instantly had just over 2,000 views. That only happens to surfski videos that are posted and marketed on sites like this one and the associated facebook, twitter and other pages. This video had no such marketing and if it had gone viral on the surfski communities we'd have heard about it.

So I am convinced that Durian Rider is not a paddler, he does not have a complaint against Epic, he doesn't own a ski, he did this for his buddy RAB.

While no-one is perfect and I'm sure that a) Epic may have produced the occasional dud ski (because ALL manufacturers do) and b) Epic may have made some enemies (because ALL manufacturers do), I'm equally sure, because I know the people concerned and I've paddled their boats, and I've probably read more opinions and heard more opinions about Epic (and -almost - ALL the other boats) that by and large Epic makes great boats.

In my opinion this is a filthy trick by a pair of low-lifes.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 4 months ago #15255 by Rightarmbad
Hi Sandy, I'll bite, a reply will be forthcoming, if not tomorrow night then before the end of next week.
I was only made aware of this thread a couple of days ago and read it last night.
I simply made no effort to come near the place with a vicious gang ruining every thread I posted on.
It simply would have been no good for the site.

I have been too busy to do anything about it as yet, but as of this week I am taking some days a week off to get back in the boat and take care of some crap like this.

I will make a rather long post and it requires me to scan in a rather incredulous letter I received from Epic Australia and for me to collate some facts as well as get my proper camera out and take some photos and maybe see if the crackling cellophane sound of a delaminated layup can be heard on either an iphone or a gopro camera.

I need to get all this stuff together anyways as it will be needed for my submission to fair trading that I am about to do now I have some time on my hands.

Was this the right way to go about it?
Well, Epic Australia have had many months to do something about it and I went through all the proper channels of taking the boat back to the seller first.
I purchased the boat in July, paddled it for two weeks and it has gathered dust and small insect poo at either the repairer, the seller or my garage ever since.
The only time it has been in the water in the intervening time was a one paddle loan to a paddler that is interested in a V12.

In the meantime, it fun to watch a bunch of people that have never met me, never paddled with me, never seen the craft involved, have no idea of the whole story, slowly did a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.

Keep diggin boys, keep diggin.........

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
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7 years 4 months ago #15256 by chucktheskiffie
My only question is if you are the militant vegan then?

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