Warranty on skis, online complaints, etc

7 years 5 months ago #15257 by Rightarmbad
And Rob, the clicky thing, visits are only logged for unique individuals, in other words I could click away all I liked and it will make no difference.

That's how Durianrider makes his living, by getting paid for unique clicks that advertisers then count and pay a fee per click for.

I checked the video a week after it went up and it had 1500 or so peeks, so Durianrider thanks you all very much for bumping it up for him after this thread hit the airwaves.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago #15259 by Rightarmbad
Sorry chucky, I'm not a vegan or militant, but I will viciously defend myself when need be.

I know Durianrider through cycling, he offered to stir the pot and demonstrate the power of social media to those who think they can get away with anything as long as they make it hard enough or expensive enough to dissuade the masses from trying.

It contains some inaccuracies as I didn't script it and he worked from his memory of the situation.
It was just a few minutes with an iphone.
But the basics are right, just some small details contain small errors.

But after reading this thread, it seems a few small errors mean nothing, after all, every one of these armchair experts know nothing wot-so-ever of the situation.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago #15260 by Kayaker Greg
Well I for one would sure like to see this run through to its rightful conclusion, which ever way that maybe, without the lynch mob mentality or the closing down of the thread, or else there will forever be speculation and doubts, please.

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7 years 5 months ago #15263 by Rightarmbad
The lynch mob crap only comes out when they find that they cannot fault the opposition, so the only way ahead for them is to attack the person.

OH come on your honour, she was asking for it, look how she was dressed......

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15264 by Rightarmbad

DD has a history (on this forum & elsewhere) of telling mistruths which is a shame as he has some worthwhile perspectives on many issues.


A perfect example of slander.
Keep diggin mate, keep diggin.






Ooh, isn't it fun when you start to ignore facts and go for the personal attack.
If you want to start throwing stones, then you better be prepared to receive some.

I actually had a high profile paddler come into the store just before xmas and he apologise for you for your remarks on this site against me.
So be careful there lad, your starting to make enemies with your little witch hunt.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago #15265 by robin.mousley
Ok, so the facts are:

RAB had a disagreement with the Epic dealer and/or Epic Australia.

The Epic dealer responded to him, on the forum and elsewhere, but he wasn't satisfied.

RAB banged on and bloody on about Epic for months until I had a number of emails from forum members asking me to ban him.

After a number requests he went away, threatening that Epic would regret crossing him.

Sure enough Durian Rider posted his video in which he lies, implying that HE bought it, and that HE has the issues with Epic.

Durian Rider then sent me emails in which he states that the issue is his, that he paddles on the gold coast. All lies.

Now RAB has admitted that actually, it was his boat, Durian Rider made the video and lied on RAB's behalf, in order to damage Epic Kayaks.

So now what?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
The following user(s) said Thank You: AdamV10L

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7 years 5 months ago #15270 by Rightarmbad
My only grudge is against Epic Australia.
This I have made clear all along.

I think Epic generally make fine boats, I bought two of them.
I love the V12, it is a learning experience to paddle, it rewards good paddling well and is a great ocean skill teacher.
The Epic bucket also suits my behind to the tee.

My online winging about Epic was about their pricing and many agreed with me.
Issues I had with my V10 rudder were also experienced by other forum users.
These rudder issues hid the unobvious tilted rudder shaft until a titanium rudder upgrade could not be made to work and the misalignment was found.

Since then, the retailer has swapped my titanium shaft rudder for a proven, original stainless rudder from his demo fleet.
This rudder can be tweaked to return alignment and the V10 has been returned to usability.

I actually don't have any real beef with this.
The boat as sold to me was usable, everybody tweaked their rudder to fit/clear the hull as it turned anyways, it was no big deal with the stainless rudder.
So the boat sold to me was 'fit for purpose'.

The problem only came to light when the new and improved Ti version came out that just could not be realistically bent to maintain alignment.
At this stage, I'm OK with that. The boat has been damaged and been repaired and is now a disposable to me anyways.
I also have the option of getting a rudder made locally to keep it going if I ever have the misfortune to break one again.

The other rudder issue that confused the situation, was two(three?) rudders that I bought at near the same time that the shafts were not properly secured in them, leading to drifting steering.
These came with shafts that needed to be cut down as they were too long and fouled the steering box cap and after cutting down only, allowed the use of one of the two locating pins.

After breaking one of these open, I discovered that the problem was that the shafts had not been fully inserted into the rudder and that the long wire pins inside to secure the rudder were not in their correct place, as well as, or maybe because of this, they also had very little material surrounding to hold the shaft securely in place.

These rudders also had the extra flashing around the edges and some around these parts actually speculated that Epic Australia may have sourced a cheaper chinese copy and flogged them off at full price.

( Note to the comprehension impaired; I did not just say that this was the case, or that I believed so, just repeating some words that were shared from others regarding the problem)


My complaint was that for $125 I believe I should realistically be able to get a rudder that fits and doesn't rotate the shaft inside the fin.
I have since shown one of these rudders with a twisty shafts to the local dealer.


Now the forum goes silly, names and accusations fly.
It truly shows how little reading comprehension there is out there.

At this stage I had made no mention of my V12 woes, but I was peed off that I now had two Epic boats and none them were any good to paddle, I wasn't even in possession of one of them.

Contacting fair trading (after a silly letter from Epic and this story will be told in full in my proper explanation of what has occurred), I was told that I had solid case and because of the way I was being treated and the value involved that I should retain a solicitor as a common law claim after the case is resolved would allow me to claim all costs back from Epic.

I was also told that it would take a minimum of six weeks for the original claim to go through and depending on when the common law claim could be heard for the reclamation of costs.

By now this also coincided with the busiest time of year for my work and time was more important for other activities and I didn't really feel like taking on court action heading into Xmas after spending the last severn years of my life on the legal treadmill.

Now, as I have always said, I just want to paddle, so I simply bought a new boat from another vendor with a much better reputation locally for after sales service.

The rudder issue with the V10 was solved a little while after this.

The dealer has done all he can whilst being stuck powerless between Epic and myself.

He has paid for the original repair out of his pocket, and has offered in recent days to look at the cracking around the bailer with a view to also doing the same.


Anybody that doubts the above can view my V10 anytime they want, just give me warning and I'll get some 10mm rod to put through to highlight the problem, just like a previous poster on this forum did with a new boat that was sub sequentially replaced.

You cannot tell with the rudder that is in it because it has been tweaked very close to vertical already.
Likewise, anybody who wants to view my V12, your welcome, all you need bring are your ears and listen for the lovely crackles when the bad bit's pressed.

This dispute is all about Epic trying to teach me a lesson for daring to tell everybody that they charge too much for their boats and highlighting some of their quality control problems that they don't want to take ownership off.

Problem is, I just spent severn years in the legal system and won quite resoundingly, I also spent fifteen years of my life doing electronic warranty work for every major brown goods (as in TV's, domestic electronic and the like)company there is, and I know the law and how it is applied.


My only request so far, has been to repair the boat and give me an assurance that should any further soft spot develop in the near future, that replacement of the boat should be given consideration.
If there is a genuine layup problem, then it will show with paddling, and it will show early.
If there is, as I believe, simply been a repair to this boat before delivery and that the first couple of paddles upwind stressed it enough to make it show it not fully repaired, as well as areas that were missed in the original inspection before repair, then the layup is generally good and simply repairing it will be all that is required.


Stupid thing is, I was going to buy an 18X sea kayak to do some expedition stuff.
I would also probably replaced my beat up original V10 also.

So there is two sales they won't be getting.

And of the many people that have read their stupid letter and seen the V12, I wonder how many of them have been swayed to other brands.

Good work Epic.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago #15271 by Rightarmbad

i have a 8-10yr ultra layup v10 sport, that is still fine with no soft spots.
so don't think the ultra layup is problematic!


The boat you have was made in a different factory.
The thing here is, if you look around the forum, you will see the question asked many times about the Ultra layup.
Everybody has heard a horror story.

I've seen a ultra boat from a similar era to yours that had had a legitimate accident that snapped the ski.
This boat is still solid to push on and doesn't deform under slight finger pressure like mine does and a couple of others that have said the same on these forums.

It also clearly shows large cracks inside that are undetectable from the outside, which further strengthens my theory that my boat may have been damaged in the factory or in transport and repaired before delivery, but missed some damage as it could not be seen.

I too, know of, and paddle with, ultra layups that are just fine.
As Epic tell me there is nothing wrong with my boat layup, then the only conclusion that can be drawn, is that the layup is highly variable and it is simply the luck of the draw if you get a strong one or one that easily deflects under finger pressure.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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7 years 5 months ago #15272 by drjay9051
FWIW:
New paddler here. Im in the USA, not Aus. My V10 Sport Ultra developed a crack along the seam. Contacted my rep. No issue. Repaired quickly.

I have noticed a couple of hairline cracks on the taped area surrounding the drain on bottom of hull. Never gave it much thought.

Should I be concerned? Yes I will check with my rep. Just wondering if I need be worried.

In my book Epic has provided stellar service. No pun intended.

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15273 by tony h
I am with Rob on this one RAB!!

Unfortunately, the legal route is your only one when you have 'burnt your bridges' with the supplier in the fashion described in this forum.

Yes you may have a lemon / dud boat - they happen in all brands & products unfortunately.
In some ways, life is about relationship & when that breaks down due to our behaviour legal routes become the only option if one persists- none of us are immune to this!!

I have had skis from most brands & have had every problem you have had with different brands- several bent/broken rudders, split seams, leaking rudder holds, soft spots, broken paddles, 5 significant repairs from damage on rocks / surf / roof racks etc.............what I am trying to say is we expect alot from these fragile craft in an unforgiving harsh environment!!
I accept that & have not sought warranty claims on any of these as far as I remember. Perhaps our expectations are unrealistic sometimes............

EDIT: I did have one warranty claim - broke my double ski footrest & ordered another from epic australia expecting to pay & they sent one to me free saying it was covered under warranty.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 5 months ago #15274 by Kayaker Greg
I know personally of a couple of ski's with minor detail problems here in NZ, way more minor than RAB's issues, the ski's were immediately replaced no question, or in one case the owner, myself, fixed the issue and received compensation, not asked for, although the offer of a new replacement ski was there. This is what good back up is and to me it looks like someone in the food chain has missed an opportunity to do the right thing in this case, but we will see how it pans out I hope. In NZ we have the Consumer Guarantee's Act to protect the consumer, things must be different in Australia otherwise this would have been sorted without all this drama.

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7 years 5 months ago #15275 by drjay9051
Correct me if I am mistaken. In RAB's last post he refers to his V12. So did he enlist a friend to post a video on You Tube to besmirch Epic's name?

If so, seems like a bit of slander.

Fight your own battles. Frankly I would imagine that a company like Epic would stand behind their product if , in fact there was a warranty issue. I just find it hard to swallow that Epic would risk their reputation for the sake of the price one ski repair or ski. Look at the big picture: a couple of thousand for a ski replacement vs ripping off a consumer.

Nope, don't see Epic going the rip off route.

Just don't belive the RAB story. That's just my opinion.
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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15276 by tony h
RAB let's move forward.......

1. Perhaps an apology to Epic Australia for the slander, lies & misrepresentation

2. Independant assessment of your ski by a reputable boat maker like Lats- clearly we can't trust your word on the ski's integrity

3. Warranty claim to Epic Australia as per online warranty policy on the website if Lats feels it is appropriate.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 5 months ago #15277 by EK Sydney
It's the purity of the democratic internet on display.
Sure, it provides a broad reaching forum for the disgruntled, but it also leaves enough of a cyber trail for anyone with a search engine to find out exactly who the disgruntled person is.
In this case such a shameful deceit, so embarrassing, and google turns up a few gems on previous public information.
Fair dinkum, imagine being caught doing something as dishonest as this, and having your name associated with it?
I hope you Gold Coast paddlers have a good chuckle when you spot these guys.

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #15278 by chucktheskiffie
To be fair, i too would act the consummate douche-bag if i had to ride around on one of these:

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7 years 5 months ago #15279 by tony h
is that a DURIAN?

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 5 months ago #15281 by EK Sydney
Tony, take one with you to the home of someone you don't like, and hide it, preferably near an air conditioning unit. Hours of fun.

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7 years 5 months ago #15286 by robin.mousley
Just to summarise, so it doesn't get lost in the noise again (and you can tell how annoyed I am because I never do this):

- RAB (real name: Daryl Duck) had a dispute with his Epic dealer, complaining the boat was defective.
- RAB used this forum as a weapon to beat Epic - but to the extent that I had multiple complaints from forum readers and eventually asked him to stop. The point is that he was using ss.i as a weapon to an unreasonable and irritating extent in a personal fight with Epic.
- RAB then went away and enlisted Harley Johnstone (Durian Rider) to make the video. I contacted Johnstone and offered to intercede. Johnstone lied to me flat out, pretending that the boat was his and saying directly to me that he is a paddler. RAB has subsequently admitted that the video is about his boat.

So where the lies begin and end is really difficult to tell. I do know that this is a bizarre and distracting episode.

What pisses me off is that there are plenty of ways for RAB to gain recourse, without resorting to copious postings on ss.i.

RAB states:

Problem is, I just spent severn years in the legal system and won quite resoundingly, I also spent fifteen years of my life doing electronic warranty work for every major brown goods (as in TV's, domestic electronic and the like)company there is, and I know the law and how it is applied.


I think this is case that he's referring to:

Darryl Duck wins court case

So please, RAB, go win another court case - you just won plenty of money to finance it.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
The following user(s) said Thank You: Shane, tony h, YBA/Jim Murray, AdamV10L, antonsa, Metro, Paul600

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7 years 5 months ago #15308 by Bermy
With great power (to moderate) comes great responsibility (to expel) Master Rob. Use it well B)

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7 years 5 months ago #15310 by drjay9051
I wonder if anyone has ever been either suspended or even banned (for life) from this forum.

Just curious. There is a first time for everything, RAB. My humble suggestion is as follows;

Behave yourself !!

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