New Think surf ski release?

7 years 5 months ago #15983 by Kocho
In fact, the volume distribution has a lot of impact on how the boat behaves. Of course, how one paddles matters a lot too. I have two white water kayaks that are each 9 feet long and about 27" wide, both have flat planing hulls. The difference is mainly in the volume of the tail and a bit how the rocker is distributed along the length of the boat. Guess what - on a wave that is approximately the length of the boat one tends to burry it's nose, the other does not. A ski in wind chop is in a very similar situation - the wave length is about the ength of the ski. The kayak with the lower volume tail allows water to go over the rear most portion of it and the boat effectively "shortens" by a foot or two from the rear, thus letting me stay and maneuver closer to the crest of the wave. The other boat lifts me up and points me down and, because the entire hull is now in the water following the curve of the short wave, it is difficult to make a turn (with the other boat, tail is partially under water but it is slicey. Aand because the nose is not pointed fully down and due to its rocker, part of the nose is also in the air, further shortening the boat by 1/2 a foot or more from the front - I can turn that boat on a dime on top of the wave.

Again, not saying this Think is or is not anything in particular, just making an observation from the photo and explaining the effect.

Stew wrote:

Kocho wrote:

Stew wrote:
Why would volume in the tail bury the nose? Where the nose goes is dictated by how you surf. The extra volume will help pop onto runs. That said, the picture may be a little deceiving, it isn't an excessive amount of volume by any means.


I'm thinking steep, wind-generated waves, where the tail is better to stay a bit buried under water while the tip of the wave catches up and lifts you up closer to the cockpit where you ride the top of the wave instead start surfing at the bottom of the wave. If the tail is fat, it will lift up too much too soon and the weight gets transferred to the nose while it is still at the back of the front wave and it will go under, lifting the center and decreasing stability. For long ocean or open water swells it won't matter. It also won't matter once you get going and change your angle on a steep wave to go diagonally... And yes, the photo is probably exaggerating too...


What you are describing is dependent on the ski length and your technique. Volume will have little effect on short wind chop, you're always going to have to manage the shorter distance between the crests. That's why shorts skis are so much fun in wind chop, the Eze is a perfect example.

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7 years 5 months ago #15989 by Stew

Kocho wrote: In fact, the volume distribution has a lot of impact on how the boat behaves. Of course, how one paddles matters a lot too. I have two white water kayaks that are each 9 feet long and about 27" wide, both have flat planing hulls. The difference is mainly in the volume of the tail and a bit how the rocker is distributed along the length of the boat. Guess what - on a wave that is approximately the length of the boat one tends to burry it's nose, the other does not. A ski in wind chop is in a very similar situation - the wave length is about the ength of the ski. The kayak with the lower volume tail allows water to go over the rear most portion of it and the boat effectively "shortens" by a foot or two from the rear, thus letting me stay and maneuver closer to the crest of the wave. The other boat lifts me up and points me down and, because the entire hull is now in the water following the curve of the short wave, it is difficult to make a turn (with the other boat, tail is partially under water but it is slicey. Aand because the nose is not pointed fully down and due to its rocker, part of the nose is also in the air, further shortening the boat by 1/2 a foot or more from the front - I can turn that boat on a dime on top of the wave.

Again, not saying this Think is or is not anything in particular, just making an observation from the photo and explaining the effect.

Stew wrote:

Kocho wrote:

Stew wrote:
Why would volume in the tail bury the nose? Where the nose goes is dictated by how you surf. The extra volume will help pop onto runs. That said, the picture may be a little deceiving, it isn't an excessive amount of volume by any means.


I'm thinking steep, wind-generated waves, where the tail is better to stay a bit buried under water while the tip of the wave catches up and lifts you up closer to the cockpit where you ride the top of the wave instead start surfing at the bottom of the wave. If the tail is fat, it will lift up too much too soon and the weight gets transferred to the nose while it is still at the back of the front wave and it will go under, lifting the center and decreasing stability. For long ocean or open water swells it won't matter. It also won't matter once you get going and change your angle on a steep wave to go diagonally... And yes, the photo is probably exaggerating too...


What you are describing is dependent on the ski length and your technique. Volume will have little effect on short wind chop, you're always going to have to manage the shorter distance between the crests. That's why shorts skis are so much fun in wind chop, the Eze is a perfect example.


You're now bring another variable into play, which is rocker, and it has a significant role in the dynamics of a hull, both on the flat and in waves. So you're not comparing apples with apples.

You also mention volume distribution, which is a little different to your earlier point, which was specific about the volume of the rear of this new design.

From the photos you can see this boat has good rocker and volume behind the seat to make it a great surfing ski. It has a specific target market, those guys who are wanting to progress from an intermediate ski, but find an elite ski a little too much to handle. It sits between the Evo II and Uno Max in terms of width, length and performance. It could be a game changer for a lot of paddlers.

Like any craft or design, the best thing is to paddle one. Then you really know how a design works, and how it suits you. Hopefully you can get a ride on the new Ion when it is released.

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7 years 5 months ago #15995 by fluidity
We seem to have a lot of Think kayak people on this thread promoting their new Think ION. :blink:

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7 years 5 months ago #15996 by Thinking
Excuse me Kiwial,

On a previous post you said that the Think surf skis are arriving in New Zealand in November and on the Think Kayaks New Zealand Facebook page it says September.

I looked at this www.wellypaddlers.blogspot.co.nz site which says September too. They also have some of the best Think surf ski photos out there.

Can you confirm which month they arrive?

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7 years 5 months ago #16053 by Stew

fluidity wrote: We seem to have a lot of Think kayak people on this thread promoting their new Think ION. :blink:


If we didn't reply to queries, we'd probably get negative feed back too. Seems we're damned if we do, damned if we don't?
The following user(s) said Thank You: thebigadski

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7 years 5 months ago #16059 by fluidity
It's the people who act financially uninvolved that bemuse me.
Way the world is going though... some companies have whole departments busy on online forums anonymously promoting their companies!

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7 years 5 months ago #16060 by kiwial
Original post was for them by Nov but decided to get them earlier, so still by november ;)

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7 years 5 months ago #16066 by lost john

fluidity wrote: We seem to have a lot of Think kayak people on this thread promoting their new Think ION. :blink:

I'm agnostic, but isn't the thread titled "Think"? Maybe you're saying it should be moved to the Think subforum?

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7 years 5 months ago #16067 by lost john

fluidity wrote: financially uninvolved s!

everyone who owns a boat is financially involved, as their ski will eventually hit the used market.

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7 years 5 months ago #16076 by Stew

fluidity wrote: It's the people who act financially uninvolved that bemuse me.
Way the world is going though... some companies have whole departments busy on online forums anonymously promoting their companies!


I certainly don't act financially uninvolved, and make no attempt to disguise being the Australian distributor. Just trying to help out with information when asked, as any good brand should do. Maybe a bit slow at replying, but I get there. :)
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7 years 5 months ago #16081 by Watto
Yeah right on Stew, the more the merrier. This forum like many of its kind is just sharing the love - in this case paddling, boats, adventure. Product is secondary in a way but still really important for us who use them and those who sell them. I enjoy the push that comes from some of the promo's because they're people who are contributing to the community. When in my opinion a product's posts become narrow and self-seeking, unashamed marketing, then I self censor. That person's credibility is reduced and I either skip their posts or read with a grain of salt.

I take your point fluidity, however so much good does come out of committed manufacturers passing on info albeit in vested self-interest. Look at Wesley's contributions. I have cringed at some of the spleen vented his way and admire and respect his continued and patient contributions.

Maybe fluidity you're refering to some Epic threads which are indeed epic, but again, take em as they come I reckon.

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