Should I or shouldn't I buy a new V10?

6 years 3 days ago #18410 by Newbflat
So I'm close to pulling the trigger on a new V10. I have read everything I could find about it and had about 10 min in one on flat water. Everything sounds good and feels good.... But what am I missing? Anyone have any complaints? Does the boat have any bad habits? What's the optimal weight for the boat?.... I'm 88/194 Kilos/lbs and falling.

So... Why should and shouldn't I buy a new V10?

Bill

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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6 years 3 days ago #18411 by Kocho
I'm similar weight as you, at about 185-190, and similarly to your and the SR I come from a bit more stable Epic V10 Sport.

If I had to do it again, I probably would not have bought it - just not 100% worth it for me on mostly flat water. I think I would have enjoyed a shorter ski more of the time for exercise paddle. Think Eze? At about 35lb int he performance layup it is also noticeably heavier than my V10 Sport was at about 27-28lb (also in performance layup).

But I do see an advantage when I catch boat wakes - the V10 is better at it as it is sleeker/longer and faster.

It is also faster on flat water if I really paddle hard - For a 3-5 mile brisk workout paddle I can now comfortably stay alongside some K1 paddlers who would drop me last year in the V10 Sport. But I don't do much of this lately, so why bother with such a long ski?

I'm thinking that, if you don't have a stability problem with it and paddle open water/ocean, it would be a a great upgrade. I would love to be able to take it out not he ocean, but I can only do that once or twice a year at best. It's nice on flat water too, but for a casual paddler like myself, a shorter boat would give just as much exercise but be easier to live with.

So, the answer is: depends what you want to do with it. It will ask you to improve your balance compared to the SR, will be faster for short distances on flat water for the average paddler but probably not faster on longer distances, will surf smooth waves better, will surf short waves worse... I'd say, if you can keep the SR for rough days and for steeper wind waves surfing and for long relaxed outings, the V10 will be great for the rest of the time :)

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6 years 2 days ago #18414 by Goldcoastkiwi
Pull that trigger Bill!

I got a new V10 Ultra from the first shipment into Australia, April I think, and everytime i paddle it the smile on my face gets broader.

Sure it will be a bit more challenging for a start, but you will become a much better paddler because of that.

I'm 80 kgs, so your extra couple of kgs will add to its stability

I find it very comfortable, even after a few hours, with no numbing problems,the seating position is very efficent and the finish is superb

I have learned to totally trust the boat in sloppy conditions...just keeps looking ahead and keep paddling!

On the flat I have a different view point to Kocho,it is markedly quicker than the 'more stable' boats, and I feel that it encourages me to push myself harder as you do get rewarded for your effort ...and its forgiving when after a few hours you start getting sloppy with your technique.

Bill you have obviously done lots of research and now have the right boat in your sights....so pull that trigger, you will never regret it!

Skis past and present : New Epic V10 Ultra, Fenn Swordfish Carbon,
Stellar S2E Excel double, PRS 570 , V8 Club, V10 Sport Club,Stellar S2E Advantage double, Epic V10 Sport Performance, Think EVO II, Fenn Swordfish Vac Glass, Fenn LS, new model Stellar S2E double, Fenn Bluefin S Carbon Hybrid

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6 years 2 days ago #18415 by Ranga
Love my new V10, I paddled a V10 Sport last season and loved it but now the new ski is a step up.

What most people don't know is that it is faster than the old V10, even though it is much more stable and turns better than the old in runs.

What more do you want?

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6 years 2 days ago - 6 years 2 days ago #18416 by Kocho
What I meant was that for folks like me, who can't put enormous amounts of power to the water over a long distance, a shorter boat might be more efficient to paddle at a lower speed compared to a longer one with a "higher top speed". As I said, I too am faster in the new V10 compared to the V10 Sport on flat, but only on relatively short distances. I don't think I would be any faster if I had to paddle 20 miles on the flat (not that I would ever do something like that). But perhaps I should measure... I could never exceed about 6mph overall average (stops and all) in the V10 Sport over a 15 mile flat water distance... Maybe if I beat that in the new V10 I'll revisit my statement here - right now, I'm still not 100% stable in it so it is sort of pointless to even try, until I get my balance issues sorted out (and it takes me a long time - I only paddle the ski on the average once a week over 6-8 months every year, the rest of my paddling being on white water in a short river runner and a bit of sea kayaking).

In contrast, folks with better technique and who can generate more power will find a boat like the V10 faster overall (not just on shorter distances).

But skis are for going fast, so "faster boats" are better, unless that speed comes with loss of stability or inability to fit in one's garage :)

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6 years 2 days ago #18418 by Love2ski
Interesting question. I have recently moved from a carbon xt to a new v10 ultra.

They are very different boats. The shorter xt is quite corky and moves around a lot in windy or rough seas. I guess this is the shape and length. The new v10 is a very different beast. The longer length makes it sit down into the water. Once I got used to the stability of the v10 I have tackled some very rough conditions that would have caused me problems on either boat. The v10 doesn't get banged around like the xt and this provides a lot of predictability and as a consequence stability.

The v10 is a boat that likes powerful paddling. I am not powerful and only average about 10.5 kmhr over 10kms. At this speed the v10 stiffens up considerably and is stable. Compared to my xt the v10 is around .5kmhr faster over 10kmhr.

If I really sprint on the v10 I can get up to around 16kmhr for a few hundred metres. I couldn't do this on my xt.

Given I'm a back of the fleet racer I would not hesitate to suggest the v10 to a similar paddler. It's an accommodating boat with the added advantage of plenty of scope for improvement.

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6 years 2 days ago #18419 by portmanm
Currently I paddle a V12 - I'm 87kgs - love the ski on the flat & mild predictable ocean up to 2m. Confused water and side chop kills me. I'm looking at new V10 Ultra vs Hawx Carbon vs Ion and have paddled all three in multiple sessions - V10 seems more stable to me out of the three in confused water but like the Hawx acceleration on downwind, little cheaper and lighter than V10 Ultra.

So what am I saying, if you have access to other options and willing to wait, do that first before committing - otherwise, go the V10 :-)

Goodluck.

Bio
- 90kg, 183cm, paddling 90+% in ocean conditions for 5 years. Prefer downwind.
- Epic V12 1G, V10 1G/2G, V10 Sport, V8 & V8 Pro
- Stellar SEI 1G/2G, SES 1G/2G, SEL 2G, SR 2G & S2E
- Vadja Hawx 43/46/52
- Think Evo II 2G, Ion 1G
- Fenn Elite S, Swordfish S
- Nelo 560M

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6 years 2 days ago #18420 by jamesb
Replied by jamesb on topic Should I or shouldn't I buy a new V10?
I currently paddle a Think Evo 11 and enjoy the ski, it's a kevlar carbon layup, slowish but safe. Recently test paddled the New Epic V10 and had to have one, after some 15 to 30 seconds of sole searching I've ordered the Ultra layup and expect delivery early October. I'm a bit excited and trying hard to disguise it, though having observed the comments on this forum for several months I am comfortable that most of you will understand. The Epic is very "planted", a term I hadn't associated with skis until I paddled this ski. I am not a competitive paddler but travel around 40-50 kms a week, unfortunately on our local croc infested river some 40 kms from the ocean. I do get down there once a week to enjoy the swell of the Coral Sea however. I can't part with my Think so my very understanding wife( who is a full time rower) has kindly agreed to adopt it. I found the epic to be very rewarding to paddle, quick, stable, sensitive to the small runners presented on the day..... and easy to remount, although I jumped off rather than being kicked off to make sure I could get back on the thing if needed. From my perspective the Epic is 1/Sable...2/Quick...3/Correct in terms of paddleability. I am however not a fan of the over-engineered bailer system , it's a bit gimmicky and may be prone to malfunction/leakage when closed, time will tell. The Think drains perfectly well with simple a hole and bullet under the hull. In summary, the Epic is a natural progression from an intermediate ski and best described in my experience as rewarding to paddle. From someone on the wrong side of 50 it certainly the closest thing I will come to paddling an elite ski.

Just an average punters opinion.

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6 years 2 days ago #18422 by SimonF
Hi portmanm, as I am considering any of the three,but have not yet paddled the Ion, can you describe the characteristics of each and pros and cons? The cost of the Epic skis is an issue and to a lesser extent the Hawx, so was the new v10 and Hawx clearly better for you than the Ion?

Thanks

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6 years 2 days ago #18426 by Newbflat
Thanks to all who replied. Once again everyone seems to really like the ski. The only thing that I felt about the ski that I wish was deferent ( with a 10 min paddle) was the seat is lower than in my Stellar SR. Having spend the summer paddling some sprint boats I have really gained an appreciation for high seats. The V10 feels like its about an inch or more lower than in my SR. I realize I would get use to it and that this is where a good chunk of stability comes from, but....I will miss a higher seat.

I'm putting in about 5 days a week, two hours a day and 60 miles/90k or so a week. So I think I'm putting in the time to get comfortable in the boat fairly quickly. Most of my paddling is ether long slows-slowish or intervals. I'm looking forward to a faster ski. Not only for being able to keep up with the pack better but for the higher cadence. Everything about my stroke just feels better when I'm .3-.5 mph faster. I sit straighter, paddle harder, have more rotation and everything seems to come together.

I will be keeping my SR for rough water and open water winter training until I feel solid in a tippy ski.

Thanks to all who made me think twice, thanks for the reality checks. And tho those who say " just do it" ... Your the devil. But with me the devil usually wins soo........

BANG!

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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6 years 1 day ago - 6 years 1 day ago #18427 by Fath2o
Bill, looks like you are in the states. You might want to consider Huki's new S1-Xl. Real nice ski designed for bigger guys and big water. Real fast and relatively stable.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a new Chinese or South African ski because you can't return it. Once you buy it, good chance you own it and any defects (which seem common). That has been my experience.
Jude has great quality control and the boat is custom made to your specs.

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6 years 1 day ago #18429 by Newbflat
You have a good point fath2o. But Huki is something like 900 miles away so demoing a boat is not so easy. I've head nothing but good things about Huki though. The two or more month wait would be excruciating....

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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6 years 1 day ago #18430 by mckengmsurfski
Bill,
Let me know if you're considering any of the other skis mentioned in the thread. We have the Think Ion and Evo II, as well as the Vajda Hawx, in stock in various constructions. I can tell you that if you like a higher seating position, all of these offer that while providing similar (or better in the case of the Evo II) stability to the V10. Feel free to contact me (info on our website) if you have any interest or questions.
Best,
Mark M
Eliteoceansports

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6 years 23 hours ago - 6 years 23 hours ago #18434 by Kocho
OK, I'm retracting my hesitation ;) You should totally buy it, especially for large open water :)

Went out today on the river and had a blast! The wind report says some 15-17 mph sustained South winds, though gusts were probably in the mid 20s. Enough to kick off some white caps, which on the only few miles long fetch means choppy water. On that section of the river that wind is enough to generate 1-2 foot "swell". Plus a lot of weekend boat traffic for the occasional "interesting" wave interaction.

The V10 indeed feels planted in these conditions and gave me no trouble going in any direction. The large surf rudder certainly helps. The V10 is a bit too long for these waves, but there were some nice sets that I could actually surf for extended periods of time. It was challenging, because the only way to do that was to go diagonally at a pretty steep angle and to maneuver a lot. A very good exercise for reading the water. I found out I could (and should) be very aggressive with the rudder, and lean a lot forward, to be able to follow and zigzag these pretty short waves as they transformed. The rear end would just slide about where I wanted it - a feeling I don't recall having experienced with the V10 Sport (maybe I just never paddled it like this, who knows). I also began to better control the edging with my legs, rather than slide passively in the seat and paddle lopsided.

OK, I did fall of twice, the first time fiddling with my water bottle behind me trying to secure it under the bungees after drinking. The second time, who knows why, just got distracted and let me get off center too much for my brace to compensate. Good exercise to practice remounts on both sides in the wind and choppy water.

I was also surprised that, after the first couple of kilometers in the chop, I no longer needed to brace pretty much at all and had developed enough of a feel for the boat's balance to begin to trust and use it. There is a very noticeable improvement in my balance every time I take the V10 out, especially when it is a it rough like it was today (rough enough to not see any other kayakers where normally there would be plenty). So there is hope for me getting fully comfy in that boat some day in the not too distant future.

Anyway, the boat indeed loves some bumps and is quite reassuring for such a slender and fast kayak.

By the way, sat for a minute on the water in the V6 too (in the calm) and that thing is even twitcher than the V10! Granted, has tremendous secondary stability but felt just as lively if not livelier than the V10 just sitting in it. Seat is completely different, more square on the v6, geared for comfort, not rotation. The V10 seat is much nicer for a ski...
The following user(s) said Thank You: Newbflat

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6 years 22 hours ago #18435 by kemi
I have logged around 3000 Km flat water in a V12. This boat have a seat height 12 mm and no hump. So nothing to interfere with leg drive, so I adjusted the kickboard for full leg extension. I was very unstable and the boat was to hard to paddle, it took me awhile to figure out, that I needed to get my legs up, to get into a decent paddle position. Once I did the balance issue went away and I could paddle without stopping all the time. The V10 has a seat height of 10 mm, so it has the same feature. So unless you're built to handle that, you need to do the same as me and then you can forget about the K1 style with legs pumping up and down because they will be way to bent to do that. That is the price for a low seat. I have extended my kickboard, so that I can push with the ball of my feet, to get a little bit around the problem, otherwise I would go crazy in that boat in no time.

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5 years 11 months ago #18439 by 1xsculler
I would very much like to hear some comments on kemi's last post. I've never hear others talk about getting your knees higher for more stability and about not leg pumping.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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5 years 11 months ago #18440 by nell
I suspect Kemi was trying to say what you already know, though I don't want to put words in his/her mouth.

The Footboard too far away or too close will make you less stable. The best stability, comfort and leg drive comes from having the footboard as far out as you can manage while still being able to keep both heels in contact with it through the whole stroke. However, depending on personal body habitus, some might do better "1-click" further out or closer in from that point.

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5 years 11 months ago #18441 by Fath2o
Although were getting a bit off topic here, the discussion of relative stability is ever present. I've noticed that a lot of posters
paddle fresh and or protected waters. I would have to assume that there "BIG" water experience is very little or none at all. Just saying at lot of these opinions have to be taken in context.
Salt water is much more buoyant than fresh water and salinity content can very around the planet. Water temperature also effects stability.
I was never comfortable on my Elite in the ocean but was quite comfortable on a fresh water lake.
Never paddled a K-1. But, paddling surfskis in the ocean I need my heels well planted against the footwell for stability. Once my heel loses contact, stability decreases.
I've been a surfer all my life and surfski paddling keeps me fit when the surf's no good. So it's all about the wave riding addiction for me.
I only do the occasional downwind race. (US Champs long course twice)
The real excitement comes during the spring when gale force wind storms are common. 12' to 15' waves at 7 sec intervals and 30 to 40 knot winds in 52 degree F water. Wished I lived in the tropics some times! I am currently paddling a Think EVO on the big downwinders with a 9" elliptical rudder. Works real good. (Drains a little slow though).

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5 years 11 months ago #18443 by rtaylor
I paddled a v10 sport for 7 months and graduated to a v10 ultra about 4 months ago and love it. I paddle about 5 times a week in the ocean in varying conditions, from nearly flat up to 4-5' waves, although very rarely are they nice rollers -lots of chop. Still working on my balance but feel like im in the best ski going forward. I was always afraid to purchase a ski that I would outgrow, but have certainly jumped into the ski which I can grow into. I love it.

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5 years 11 months ago #18444 by kemi
If you are sitting on the floor with your legs extended, you would feel most comfortable leaning back. In order to lean forward comfortably, you would have to bent you legs. Being in a comfortable forward position is a plus, because that would put you out over the water and that is where you want to be. As for stability, what I felt when I raised the kickboard, was that the boat was more free to do what it wanted. Like my ass had become a ball and the boat could roll under that. Another benefit from my new position, is that now it feels natural to look strait ahead. I have always had to look down to apply power.

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