Looking for tandem paddling input

5 years 7 months ago #24279 by Rubys Dad
Okay, so have been lurking for a bit now and own a couple of Epic boats. Very happy with the V 8's performance and now getting to try my new to me V10 double. Buddy and I are getting very good at the remounting part but would like to try to paddle with my legs in more often. Which seating position is more forgiving for the novice for balance if someone has any insights. Second year on surf ski's and absolutely love them.

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5 years 7 months ago #24294 by robin.mousley
I had a partner who was pretty stable in his own ski but twitched like mad in the back seat on the double. (Also a V10 Double.)

He felt much better sitting in the front - but perhaps it was just his tactic to convince me that he should be driving!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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5 years 7 months ago #24300 by Ranga
Going from a beginner ski to a top end racing ski! Who would have thought it would be difficult?

Yes the V10 double is stable, but stability is a relative term and depends on your ability.

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5 years 7 months ago #24303 by Rookie
Hi Ruby Dad,

the V10 double is not quite a beginner double but still...

The best advice I can give you is to lengthen your leg length and in doing so bring your knees down and lower the centre of gravity in the boat.

The next thing is to sit still in the boat and let water collect in the footwell for a bit. Then close the venturi with the water trapped in side the footwell. True you will not win any races but great for adding stability in the beginning.

Lastly BAN hard paddling - no hard strokes untill you are both prefectly comfortable to do it.

As you and your partners balance improve trap less water in the footwell AND shorten your leg length until you are both comfortable again.

Good luck - it is fantastic once you get it right!!

Focus, Apex 2, Zeplin
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5 years 7 months ago #24304 by Rubys Dad

Rookie wrote: Hi Ruby Dad,

the V10 double is not quite a beginner double but still...

The best advice I can give you is to lengthen your leg length and in doing so bring your knees down and lower the centre of gravity in the boat.

The next thing is to sit still in the boat and let water collect in the footwell for a bit. Then close the venturi with the water trapped in side the footwell. True you will not win any races but great for adding stability in the beginning.

Lastly BAN hard paddling - no hard strokes untill you are both prefectly comfortable to do it.

As you and your partners balance improve trap less water in the footwell AND shorten your leg length until you are both comfortable again.

Good luck - it is fantastic once you get it right!!


Totally get that and had a nice paddle out yesterday with a fellow surf ski paddler. Got rhythm and technique improvements very quickly and managed a 9K easy paddle with no swimming in the mix. Definitely something to practice with from someone who has some experience in a surf ski or similar craft.

Ready to go to a more challenging boat than the V8 but Mrs has a say in that too and there's not much support for three in the garage at this point. Before anyone goes there, she likes the V8 so no getting rid of that either to replace it with a V10 single.

Like the double and I can easily see the kind of speed that's possible with a coordinated effort and the bucket time on the ski. Thanks for the tips, that is helpful.

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #24305 by jagter
Personally I find double skis very uncomfortable to paddle. Unless you've spend weeks training with your partner.

Everyone responds differently to chop, wind and waves on an unconscious level, so you're never really in sync and always fighting each other' balance.

Another thing I found is that most double skis have huge buckets, so you tend to slide around a lot, some hip padding will sort that out.

So basically my advice is: Give it time. Lots of time. And glue pads into the bucket to keep your hips centered.

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5 years 7 months ago #24320 by stretchstruwig
Tandem/doubles paddling is going to take yu at least 2/3 years to get with'it ! suggest yu sell yur V10 - not slating the ski but get yurself a Fenn XT ( i do not own any Fenn's) and hang in there !!!!

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5 years 7 months ago #24322 by Rookie
Not necessarily true, my partner and I started training in August last year and did the Cape Point Challenge in December only paddling on Saturday mornings. 5 months max!

I have 4 golden rules about doubles paddling that help a lot:
1. The ski WILL rock - try not to fight it.
2. The back paddler will get splashed in the face
3. The front paddler will get constant water down their backs
4. be prepared to laugh it off and start again.

I have paddled the XT and the V10 - true the XT is wonderfully stable but neither my partner nor I were comfortable in the boat. I got cramp in my hips after an hour and my partner did not like her carves rubbing on the boat. Each to their own i guess.

The V10 is more twitchy - but both of us were comfortable in it. (Pity because they are really expensive in SA)

Just go slowly and be prepared for good days and bad days because when you both have a bad day it can be horrific!!

personally I would buy a V10 in a flash. It is the kind of boat you can grow in to BUT realise that it will take time to get good at it.

You both need a sense of humour

Focus, Apex 2, Zeplin
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5 years 7 months ago #24323 by Rookie

jagter wrote: Another thing I found is that most double skis have huge buckets, so you tend to slide around a lot, some hip padding will sort that out.

I agree especially in the V10 but do try the new Carbonology Zest double - the best snug fit I have found

Focus, Apex 2, Zeplin

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5 years 7 months ago #24333 by wesley
DISCLAIMER: I am the Stellar Performance Director for USA and owner of SurfskiRacing.com having reviewed many,many, many skis since 2003 and all on my site if you are not familiar with it.

Another great option is the Stellar S2E. While I don't have extensive knowledge about doubles or paddled them extensively as I do singles skis, I have paddled a few of the doubles and gotten input on others. The S2E(not the low volume S2E L) is a stable ski with excellent glide and speed. It is faster than XT double but less stable. Slower than Fenn Elite doubles or V10 doubles but much more stable. The combination of Speed/Stability that runs thru the Stellar line is very apparent as well in the doubles. It is a fast double.

The other benefit is that the cockpit is not near as deep as the other doubles so remounting as much easier. I had the opportunity to race the Canadian Surfski Champs on Saturday and ask several of the elite paddlers if they had any tips on remounting a double. While I have practiced remounting, it was helpful to ask the question get more input. Bear hugging the ski with yours legs spread out in a V(I was not doing the later) allows the stability for the 1st paddler to remount. then he is bracing to allow the second person in. My other advice I got was, laughing as he said it, don't fall in, easy for him to say but then said similar advice of the other top paddlers I asked. I realize these guys rarely fall out but it asking is always helpful.

The weight of the S2E Excel is 41bs and 50lbs in the advantage layup. The draining is excellent now with two well placed venturis and the volume of S2E can accomodate any conditions unlike the low volume version made for smaller paddlers and lakes, rivers. Next Saturday I will race the S2E Excel in our biggest race the 20 mile Blackburn Challenge in Gloucester, Mass, USA.

Like most new paddlers and even experienced ones, Stability is key especially in a double in moderate to bigger conditions where everything is exaggerated. I found that you have to trust your partner. In my case I paddle with my 10 year training partner so we know intuitively when the conditions are over our skill level.

Like singles heavier skis are considerably more stable in a double. I found two fit mid pack paddlers will be 45 seconds to 1 minute faster in a double per mile than a single, provided you are trained up, stable and in sync. If available you should try the S2E. I will be reviewing it shortly but this is the jest of it. Try as many as you can like singles so you can make an informed decision. Wesley Echols

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

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5 years 7 months ago #24342 by steveb
I also have an S2E in Sport lay up, an economically priced ski for my needs. It is well balanced for a single person carry, stable, easily accommodates a wide range of paddlers from children to larger adults, and moves very efficiently through the water. Remounts have been easy, ether from opposite sides or both on the same side, even in our sometimes chaotic Great Lakes conditions. I added an extra rear cockpit drain to better assist drainage efficiency. Overall I've been very pleased with the S2E in my three years of ownership.

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