Realistic Pace Expectations

3 years 6 months ago #31980 by Gooch
I am new to Surfski but am over the hump on the stability issues and getting my stroke closer to where it needs to be. I use a Garmin triathlon GPS to track my work outs and am curious what is realistic for speed and how much I can still gain.

I am 6'2" 190 lbs. Extensive fitness back ground but 51 years old. I paddle mostly early mornings on flat water and am in a Epic V10 sport (gen1). I can go for about 1-2 hours and hold 5.4 - 5.6 MPH avg pace. My max speeds are usually around 6.5 on any given day and my cadence is usually around 65 RPM (measuring one arm)

Is it realistic to think I can get to a sustained 6 MPH in this boat? should I work to increase cadence more or power more?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31981 by nell
Replied by nell on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Gooch, a 65 stroke rate, counting on one side only, is very telling, because your cruising stroke rate should be somewhere around 70-90? when counting both sides.

My guess is that if you are at least average in VO2 level, and coordination, you should be able to see speeds in the mid 6's for 1-2 hrs at moderate effort, and max speeds in the mid to high 8's in that ski.

Ski/kayak paddling with a wing paddle is very technically demanding, particularly compared to running and cycling - sports where most of us came from. The good news is that you can keep getting faster every year if you work on it - even at your age. Watch Ivan Lawler's 1 hr long video "Ivan Lawler kayak (canoe) racing technique masterclass" on Youtube for some tips. Also, reach out to some experienced paddlers in your area if you can.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31982 by Davidw
Replied by Davidw on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Hi there. I'm a 55 year old paddler.
I paddle a Think Evo II, which I think is a pretty similar boat, speed-wise, although I'd like to think it's faster :)
I average 9.5-10 km/h (5.9-6.25 mph?) over 1 to 1.5 hours, conditions and tides dependent.
I have no idea what my stroke rate is but it's slower than all my paddling buddies.
According to my garmin I have a bit above average VO2 max, but unless downwinding I paddle at a heart rate of less than 120, normally averaging around 113/4 at the above speeds.
I think I have a good stroke but I don't know that
So yes, I reckon it's realistic to expect to be able to sustain 6 mph or faster at moderate efforts, given some more time in the boat.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31983 by Gooch
Replied by Gooch on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
So you say 70-90 for both arms does that mean it should be 35-45 on one arm? That sounds very slow. I feel like I could increase my cadence but have tried to work on solidifying my form so I have not pushed it. Curious where you have seen that kind of stroke rate as ideal so I can review it.

Thanks

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31984 by kwolfe
Replied by kwolfe on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Yeah, 65 per side would be more of a sprint to me. Check out the link below at just before 1 minute. I know its a swimmer but imagine you paddle tempo and compare it to this girl at 80. I'm probably around 80 or so when I paddle for an hour.

On a side note, I would keep concentrating on your catch and drive. That will yield you more speed before anything else.

Stroke Tempo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31985 by PSwitzer
Gooch either your cadence measurement is off or you need to work on doing way more work per stroke.
60-ish double strokes/ minute is what these guys are doing in this 1000M sprint:



So if your cadence is indeed in that range then slow way down and work on pulling the boat much further with each stroke.

The V10 sport will go plenty fast as Nell mentioned- don't worry about the boat.

For reference, I am doing about 40 double strokes/ min at my hour flatwater pace, and everyone I paddle with is in the 35-45 double stroke/min range that Nell advised.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago - 3 years 6 months ago #31987 by sski
Replied by sski on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Similar to you- same boat, 6'1'', 190#, age 59, extensive sports bkground, VO2 54-60 depending on sport/altitude (physio lab). That is reasonable pace esp if 2 hrs and there is wind or current either way. I avg about 6.3-6.5 flatwater (current or wind usually but not a lot) but I'm doing only 30 min efforts at ?130's avg. But I've recently started and am treating it like other sports, i.e. doing LSD, short/long intervals and drills from Oscar video. I think if you only do steady 'level 2' paddles that we all love (feels hard but not hard enuf and too hard to be easy enuf for LSD), you tend to get 'regression to the mean' - you tend to get stuck at that speed. Maybe mix up the workouts.
Oh-agree with others that your stroke rate is either way too fast (if counting only one arm) or way too slow (if counting both)- need to find that Goldilocks rate :). Vaaka has some good info i've read. I vary cadence from 70 (1 hr) to 100's (intervals). Hope this helps a little.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #31996 by Hardy
Replied by Hardy on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Similar data here: I'm 57yrs old, 5'10", 155#, first season in surfski, but longtime experience in other sports. I average about 9,5 km/h (6 mph) over an hour, max speeds around 12.5 km/h (7,7mph). Cadence 35-40, maybe 45 at top speed. Trying to go even higher cadences makes my technique fall apart.
Goosh, 65 per side sounds somewhat crazy. I guess your counting is wrong whatever the reason...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32016 by PharmGeek
I’m age 35 in an epic v7 for the past year and not intensely trained or super fit by any means and I average 5.0-5.1mph in the v7 for 1.5 hours.

I’m getting a new ski soon so maybgain some speed but I rather suspect you will with technique improvements alone will do quite a bit more speed in the v10....as others have said. Good luck

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32030 by TomVW
Replied by TomVW on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
I am 44 years old, 1.82m and 87kg.

On my Nelo 550 in flat water, I am able to maintain 10.1 - 10.2 km/h average for 1 to 1.5 hour at 65-70 strokes per minute although I must say that this is also my "race pace".

Hope that helps to set realistic expectations...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32036 by RonyMaier
Hi there ,just to add my personal parameters, was started 1 year ago in this sport .
55 yo , 1.85 m tall and 82 kg , paddling in a V11 can keep 10.5 -11.0 km/h at a 43-45 (86-90) pace.
In flat conditions and low currents.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32044 by d0uglass
RonyMaier- How do you like that v11? Is it the boat you learned on or did you switch to it after learning on something else for a while? Is it stable enough for you to paddle in rough water / downwind conditions? I'm asking because I'm a newbie on a v12 and I'm thinking the size and maneuverability of the v11 might suit me more. Thanks.

Stellar SEI 1g

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32046 by RonyMaier
Hi d0uglass , i’ve started in a more stable ski, a Nordic Squall ++ but was interested in a more fast and demanding ski then a V11 was my choice. Stability is similar to V12 (43 cm ) but is more manouverable in our wind and wave conditions ( short period) ,it demands good skills on choppy water and big sea conditions but is very nice and fast . I enjoy so much .!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 6 months ago #32047 by RonyMaier
Hi d0uglass, I've started with a Nordic Squall ++, witch is a very stable boat, then acquired the V11 to increase speed and to chase my ability and to force me to be more technical . Its a very nimble boat in big winds and sea conditions ,surfs fantastic ,but I don't feel any diference in stability compared to the V12 (yes is more maneuverable ). I think both of them need good balance and technique to be comfortable in rough water.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 4 months ago #32546 by RevoRace
Your question caught my eye because I'm also fairly new to surfski. I'm also 51 and 190 lbs, with an extensive cycling and running bkg. Only difference is we're an inch apart in height (I'm 6 3"), otherwise I might have thought I posted this question and forgot about it.

This is my 3rd full summer paddling. (I did paddle SUP a couple of years before that.) I haven't raced yet (except against the clock) but I might try an event or two this fall. I paddle a 37 lb V8 in the standard layup.

My first two seasons I found myself stuck at the 5.0 - 5.5 mph average pace (per Garmin GPS watch), paddling 10 to 15 miles per week. This year I made some pretty big jumps, averaging 6.0 to 6.5 miles per hour for paddles up to an hour or more. (I did a 10k a couple of weeks ago in ~ 57 minutes.) My cadence averages right at 90 strokes per minute (45 on each side.) Most of my paddling is on flat water lakes.

I attribute the 20% speed increase to time in the bucket and concentrating a little more on technique and consistent paddle hand position. (I struggled for a while with my hands slipping all over the place, totally hosing up my stroke.) Maybe more importantly, I spent a lot of time on a rowing machine (first time) over the winter (especially Jan and Feb), which has helped me pull with more power I believe. I'm stroke rate has stayed fairly consistent, but I'm getting more distance per stroke now. I'm still only paddling around 15 miles per week, but I am supplementing that with a row or two per week too.

My guess is that based on your fitness bkg you may find that you can get a v10 up to 7 mph average consistently, provided you feel stable in it. I recently took a v10 for a short spin and found it significantly faster than my v8. It got up to speed (7 mph+) almost instantly with what felt like minimal effort on calm water. But admittedly it did feel a little tippy to me. It would take me a while to get used to it, especially in any sort of side chop. I do wonder if I've handicapped myself by not jumping into a v8pro or v10 out of the gate. You've got that licked.

Just one old guy's 2 cents! I look forward to seeing more input from others on threads like this.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #32547 by RedBack
Replied by RedBack on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
[quote= "Is it realistic to think I can get to a sustained 6 MPH in this boat? should I work to increase cadence more or power more? Appreciate your thoughts. [/quote]

Gooch, that's definitely a realistic pace expectation for someone of your background and in that ski.

If you've only been paddling for a short time, I suspect that your technique is still evolving and to be honest, you'll gain as much additional pace from improvements in technique as you will from strength and fitness.

I'm only a little guy at 172cm and 75kg but at 60 years of age, I can still average 12km/h for a one hour training session and around 12.5 during a race.

I've certainly got slower as the years have caught up with me, but I continue to do a lot of technique work and I think that helps significantly in retaining speed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

3 years 4 months ago #32557 by feeny
Replied by feeny on topic Realistic Pace Expectations
Crikey, my life would be complete if at 60, I can average 12km/h in the flat over a 1h training session and hit 12.5km/h in a race.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SurfskiEstonia

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics

Epic rudder conduit repair (1 Posts)

9 hours 25 minutes ago

General questions on repairing an EPIC Elite. (3 Posts)

3 days 10 hours ago
Goldschmidt's Avatar

What's new in surfskis for 2022? (3 Posts)

3 days 17 hours ago
Protected by R Antispam