2018 Epic 'Elite' Boat Construction - How robust ?

  • uk gearmuncher
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5 years 6 months ago #32725 by uk gearmuncher
I've been offered the chance for a reasonably price Epic in boat but in the 2018 'Elite' black boat construction. The 10kg suggested weight sounds great for hauling the ski around and on and off the car but I'm worried that this construction would be fragile or really any good as an 'everyday' boat.

Has anyone got any feedback of this construction or know of any from elsewhere ?

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5 years 6 months ago #32726 by [email protected]
A friend had one of the old V10s in the black elite layup.

He loved it, but took enormous care of it - he never put it down on the ground, but always used (and uses on his current boat, as I do) cradles to clean it/dry it.

Any boat that weight is going to be prone to getting dings. So it's really down to the kind of paddling that you do. If you're into everyday downwinds in strong winds, you're going to find that it gets scraped and dented. The other thing about a very light boat is that it's a bugger to carry in the wind...

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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5 years 6 months ago #32729 by leolinha
After 3 years paddling an Epic V8, I bought a brand new Epic V10 Sport "elite" in January 2018. Just like you, before the purchase I was very worried about the fragility and durability of the boat. However, I must say that I didn't regret it one bit.
Here in Brazil, in the city of Santos, the most common imported surfskis are the red-nosed Epic ("ultra" construction), which are reputed to be tough and durable despite the special care the manufacturer recommends. So some friends advised me to buy a red nose "ultra". However, Epic's new "elite" construction is virtually identical to "ultra", with the difference of being 100% carbon rather than a carbon-kevlar mix. Apparently, after some negative experiences with the GT super lightweight construction, Epic has decided to move back to a more traditional type of construction: honeycomb, epoxy and carbon.
The new black Epic really inspires utmost care. It feels fragile, it seems fragile... But it has taken its share of abuse so far, still holding on.
It has even survived a potentially bad accident. A couple of friends in a heavy OC2 crashed headlong into my side, making a loud crash. Immediately I jumped in the water to inspect, and to my surprise all there was to see was a small soft spot. Easy and cheap repair with suction cups and resin injection, now it's barely possible to see the impact point.
Summing up: you will never regret buying the best. Go black!

Current: Epic V8 PRO, Think Evo 3
Past: Epic V8, Epic V10 Sport

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5 years 6 months ago #32730 by Cerca Trova
Leolinha, thanks for the info. I have a V11 now in the Ultra lay up, and recently a V8 Pro in Ultra. Both have been durable, though I am very careful. You really need to be very diligent with transporting. I have a new V10 Elite coming in next month and I anguished getting the Elite. Your input has been helpful!
The following user(s) said Thank You: leolinha

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5 years 6 months ago #32731 by leolinha
The Epic representative in Brazil, Guto Campos, is an accomplished paddler and has a lot of experience with surfskis. He told me that the ultra and elite constructions are virtually identical. According to him, the structural calculations in the design are exactly the same. The only reason why the elite is lighter than the ultra is because carbon is lighter than kevlar for the same strength. The honeycomb core is the same in both.
Still according to him, in the case of structural load beyond the boat's resistance limit, probably both constructions would failure at the exact same loads, that is, elite is NOT weaker than ultra in any way. The difference, he says, would be primarily the aspect of the failure: whereas the elite would show a clean, brittle failure, with parts breaking cleanly apart, the ultra would show broken parts probably still united by the kevlar fabric.
As to durability... Many people say that the seams are the weakest point in any surfski, and I tend to agree. I've heard (or read) that a super stiff construction like the elite would be too rough on the seams. Someone here compared a stiff surfski with a car without suspension. But again, I really don't believe that there is a big difference in stiffness between the ultra and elite constructions. They have the same core and the ultra has a good deal of carbon (kevlar inside, carbon outside the core). If you go to a "performance" construction (mostly fiberglass over a foam core) then yes, ok, you have considerable more flexibility.
Only time will tell, but I bet that the elite construction will prove to be as tough and durable as the ultra. The elite construction is admittedly prone to dentings and dings, as Robin Mousley pointed out, but again, I doubt that the elite is more sensitive than the ultra in this respect.

Current: Epic V8 PRO, Think Evo 3
Past: Epic V8, Epic V10 Sport
The following user(s) said Thank You: Fath2o

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5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #32737 by Fath2o
I have three different makes of skis. One is all Carbon. One is all Kevlar and one is hybrid Kevlar/Carbon. They all seem to have the same relative stiffness and durability. The noticeable difference is variations in build quality, component design and engineering. Oh, and these skis are many years old and abused.
Last edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Fath2o.

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5 years 6 months ago #32739 by Dicko
I have a black ultra SEL and I assume it is similar construction to what you are looking at. The thing is a lot tougher than it looks. I ran over a rock at the finish of a race once and the ski suffered no ill consequences that I can see.
A guy who repairs skis and sees inside skis a lot once told me that skis are built to a price. The more expensive the ski, the better the build quality. ie, stringers, reinforcing etc. See if Ranga will comment. He's an expert on construction and repair and will be able to explain what is the most common cause of damage to a ski.

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5 years 6 months ago #32784 by Ranga
The internal construction of all Epics are basically the same. The difference is the outer construction, as they get lighter they get more expensive, the materials get more expensive and lighter and take longer to make. They don't get weaker for their intended purpose, generally stronger and stiffer, but more fragile for impact.

Epic add extra material just for handling purposes most damage is generally not done on the water paddling normally. However catch a wave and all bets are off, they are not made for catching breaking waves but open ocean swell.

We have a lot of wind here in Perth and it can be a nightmare to carry skis, they end up getting blown around and hitting things and no ski likes to be hit by solid objects. So a lot of my ding repairs are from hitting solid objects, and all makes of ski are subject to this. Epics are generally quite tough but like any ski as they get lighter they get more fragile. So the best practice is to get help carrying skis off the roof racks and back on. When the wind is blowing that hard you should be paddling with a buddy anyway.

You would not be buying an Elite for its robust construction, generally it would be for a performance advantage. Just like a carbon bicycle, not great for crashing.

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