Surfskis that need a redesign for 2019

8 months 4 weeks ago #33144 by Steve Hansen
It's almost 2019. I was thinking about skis that could use a new generation update and a few came to mind. What would others like to see ?
Stellar SR: Narrower catch.
Fenn Spark: Shorter length. Possibly a millimeter or two wider.
Huki S1-R: Narrower catch.

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8 months 4 weeks ago #33145 by LakeMan
 I can't reply to any surfski updates but I can say that the Subaru Outback needs to return to being a wagon instead of an SUV so it would be easier to load a surfski onto its roof. After all Subaru already has the Forester SUV so why change the Outback? I was going to buy one but didn't because they have become too tall. 

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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8 months 4 weeks ago #33147 by MCImes
Although the gen 2 skis are better, stellar's still have a high volume bucket that bothers me. I like the way they paddle, but if you're in rougher water, the swamped bucket can pose a problem at times.

imo, everyone should go to a debritto/pop down bailer. they work so well and its nice to have a dry footwell when desired.

Last, carry hadles at the cockpit should be standard now. Its almost 2019...we can do this on every boat because its nice.

overall things have gotten much better in the last 5 years though, I think we'd all agree

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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8 months 4 weeks ago - 8 months 3 weeks ago #33149 by wesley
I  really like the Sr 2G as a great all around ski. Remember if you narrow the catch too much you lose stability. Everybody wants a narrow catch until they get a narrow catch ski and it is too unstable for them.
-I still prefer the a venturi on all my skis though none have them now, less to fuss with. 
-Want I want is the stellar SEL 1G with a redesigned bucket and footwell. Leave the hull alone, no tweaks, but move the rudder forward by 1/2 inch for better turning.  While the bucket  ill shaped/hump was too far forward for short guys, the speed/stability ratio was still the best of any ski I have paddle to date. Hands down. Tracked well and exceedingly stable in all conditions, easy to remount. The SEL 2G is a different ski all together. 
-I want a slightly tweaked Van dusen  Mohican for pure flat water, slightly higher deck to accommodate bigger feet and shoes, raise the seat slightly, move rudder forward slightly and then you have a perfect pure flat water machine. 

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

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8 months 4 weeks ago #33150 by d0uglass
My suggestions are not boat-specific; just a general list of things that I would like in a surfski. I've been doing surfski less than a year, so these are oriented toward what would make it easier to get into surfski paddling.

1. Carry handles at the middle balance point? Yes, please. I'm tired of awkwardly dropping my wet slippery expensive heavy fragile surfski when trying to pick it up or set it down on the beach. 
2. Carry handles at the nose and tail? No, thanks. Why would you design a one-person boat with handles that you can only use if have two people? Besides, if you have two people you can easily tuck the slender bow or stern under your arm and you don't really need a handle. 
3. Built in "head pad" in the cockpit for if you're balancing the boat on your head in long walks to the water. Or if not a head pad, at least leave that spot flat and don't put a head-killing hump or water bottle holder there. 
4. Go-pro gear mount on top of the footstraps, like the Nelo has, so you can mount your GPS in a place where you can actually reach it to start and stop it without leaving your seat. 
5. All skis should have a super-solid beefy carbon 3 pt attachment foot plate like the Stellar does. 
6. Not sure what kind of bailer should come standard, but if it's the type you open and close with your foot, it should be ready-made to be operated that way, instead of having to fuss with putting a tennis ball on it yourself. 
7. Self-centering rudder that keeps rudder centered with springs even if a steering line breaks or comes untied.
8. Slight "step" in the hull at the rudder so you don't need to mount a weed guard. Puakea OC1s have both #7 and #8.
9. More seat pad and hip pad options tailored to particular boats, perhaps with outlines painted on the seat so you'd know the exact recommended spots for the pads and wouldn't have to guess when gluing them in. Also, "slippery" seat pad options so you don't have to choose between ruining your hip motion by sitting on a grippy rubber pad or ruining your coccyx by sitting without a pad.  
10. Less than 6 meters long? Yes, please. I want it to fit in my 10x20' shed. 
11. Universal rudder system for all brands of surfski, like they have a universal fin system for all race paddleboards. Also, the rudder should be changeable without tools, like with the hand-turned nut that DK makes for his Stellar rudders. 

Stellar SEI 1g
The following user(s) said Thank You: Korrigan, Wavehugger

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33153 by LakeMan
I highly agree that there should be center handles. My Think Uno Max has them on the ends but I can't carry the ski from both ends. It should be a standard for all skis. 

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33156 by Steve Hansen
Wesley, if the Mohican is a flat water surfski why is its overall speed so slow in your graph ?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33167 by Wombat661
Here are a few more items I would love to see:
Attachment point in front of the boat for a leash. In waves, the boat would weathervane into the wave and not break the leash.
Attachment point for an optional lap belt or knee brace for rolling.
A drain tube from the very bottom of the seat area to the foot well. The entire cockpit can be drained so you are relatively dry for long distance paddling.

Finally, a dream set-up:
A take apart ski that breaks into two or three sections for transportation. That would add to safety too. If one part floods, you got two other sections to keep ypu floating.

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33168 by wesley
Take a look at the table with the numbers for the Mohican. Chart represents the overall stability to speed . Mohican is a 1 on stability but 6.2 like V14 for flat water speed. If over 8 inches of chop, mohican is not worth the effort so better to paddle an advanced ski.  Mohican designed for pure flat water, not ocean. If I paddle majority flat water, I would still own a Mohican. I owned 3 in various weights, etc. See my written review too on Mohican. 

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33174 by owenfromwales
Yes, to a new gen Stellar SEL, with the following at least:
seat carry handles - like the great ones on the SEi 2G
gunwales that increase in height in a direct line from in-front of proposed handles to the midpoint on the deck, above the bung, to keep as much water out as possible on a downwind or into nasty chop (a bit like on the new SEA).
The pre-rudder step in the hull to stop seaweed getting stuck.
Two internal bulkheads to prevent sinking in case of a serious puncture!

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33175 by Fath2o
Wouldn't a "pre rudder step" to prevent weed snags greatly limit your rudder selection choices?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33179 by Fath2o
Another question: Wouldn't surface mounted seat carry handles make straddle remounts more difficult?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33180 by Epicpaddler
The carry handles on my Epic v8pro are fantastic. They do not interfere with any kind of remount. I chose the v8pro over the v10 sport just for the carry handles.

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33181 by Wombat661
Wesley,
I really like that table on speed and stability.

I always wonder, if I upgrade from a Mako XT that has speed of 2.9 to SEL with speed of 5.9, is it reasonable to expect a 1mph gain for each point. For the approximately same effort on the XT, I would be about 3mph faster on the SEL?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33182 by Dicko
Speed increases are not that simple. There are too many factors involved. Stability conditions , your ability, comfort, etc. Are you talking cruising speed or flat out sprinting. Cruising on an xt will be around 10kph, maybe slightly less or slightly more. On an SEL it may be 0.5 kph higher. The speed difference will be marginally higher as the effort increases. No boats have a speed differential of 5 kph (3mph). Thats 5 kilometres over an hour. Most boats will be somewhere in the 200 to 500 metre advantage over an hour of paddling, but this is a very inexact science. 

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33183 by MCImes
I'd say Dicko is right on the money. I have been paddling an old XT for the past 2 months or so. Now that I'm only paddling 2 times a week in the dark season (northern hemisphere) I average 9.4 kph on a 10-12k paddle. I could probably work that up slightly higher than 10kph with some more light / more training sessions per week.

Wessley's chart of 0-6 is just his subjective scale. 

Per greg barton comparing similar beam epic boats, he estimates the same speed for an intermediate paddler (due to stability issues) and only estimates 1 minute difference for a master (i.e. greg)

www.surfskinews.com/news-2016-decjan-201...son-with-greg-barton

Greg:
V8 Pro: 45:15
V10 Sport 2G: 44:40 (XT)
V10 2G: 43:58
V12 2G: 43:35 (SEL)

Intermediate Level Paddler:
V8 Pro: 52:25
V10 Sport 2G:  51:55
V10 2G:  51:40
V12 2G: 51:45

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33184 by owenfromwales
Hi fath2o,
"Wouldn't a "pre rudder step" to prevent weed snags greatly limit your rudder selection choices?"
I don't think so. Most of my rudders (DK's at the moment) have similar dimensions ahead of the rudder post, close to the hull. As long as the leading upper portion of each rudder can sit and swivel in the shadow of the step, then I think they should all work find.

"Wouldn't surface mounted seat carry handles make straddle remounts more difficult?"
Definitely no problem on my Stellar SEi.

Happy paddling,

Owen

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33186 by owenfromwales
Hi D0uglass,

" Carry handles at the nose and tail? No, thanks. Why would you design a one-person boat with handles that you can only use if have two people?"

I love the end carry handles. I can't see any downside in having them. They make grabbing hold of the end of a ski that's loose in the surf a lot easier, especially if you only have one hand free.
But the best reason is safety. It gives me something to tie against my rudder tiller bar if one cable snaps and I lose steering. It is perfect for this job. In addition, I also use it for my running ski-leash. On top of all this, they make it a lot easier to carry a pair of skis at the end of a hectic downwind if you did it with a paddle buddy.

Happy paddling,

Owen

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33189 by CrabStick
I'm with the Welshman on this one. If you paddle to shore in flat water the side handles are great and the Fenn handle at front of cockpit even sometimes handy. If it's through the breakers you are much more likely to hit the beach almost sideways and my preferred tactic is to lift ski at stern handle to keep the rudder safe and run up beach. The bow may get swung around by the wind but it's not going to fight against you like can happen if you are using centre / side handle.
Other time to hold by 2 ends is lifting off car in strong wind (like we're finally getting in Perth....just not for  the Doctor!) when bad things happen if you attempt alone. 
Also agree with Owen re carrying 2 skis with buddy which beats wrestling with it yourself especially if good wind or heavy ski.
I'm hoping that more surfski manufacturers will have new models or versions of existing models with lower volume and narrower buckets for lighter paddlers. Overall length may trend down for maneuverability and general fun factor too.

CrabStick

Current Boats: BlueFin, Swordfish
Previous: Think Eze, Stellar SR, Carbonology Boost LV

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8 months 3 weeks ago #33190 by d0uglass
Ok, that's true about the nose and tail handles. They are definitely useful sometimes, especially exiting the surf, etc. They are probably worth their weight. They can stay. :)

Stellar SEI 1g

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