Rate Skis on how easy they are to remount

1 month 3 weeks ago #34774 by MCImes
A lot is talked about remounting in various places, but I couldnt find a thread that directly compared how easy or hard a boat is to remount. Obviously some of this is subjective, but in general I think we can agree that boats with a wide, shallow seat are easier to remount than ones with a narrow, deep seat. Also, maximum beam factors heavily into remnountability, but does not tell the whole story, which is why I ask the question.

Maybe give a 0-10 scale of ease of remount with some notes on why its easy or hard. (I figure a 10/10 is like a V5/V7 level boat, so dont tell me a SF, V10, or SEL is 10/10. Yes, those boats are relatively easy to remount once you have some skill, but that doesnt make it 'easy' on an absolute scale - they're 'easy' on a relative scale)

For the 4 boats I'm very familiar with, it goes like this - Easiest to hardest. For reference I side saddle 95% of the time. 

Stellar SR g1 - 8/10 - very easy due to lots of primary stability, wiiiide bucket that is not too steep and only moderately deep. Almost never miss the first remount.

Fenn XT g1 - 6.5/10 - same beam as an SR, and has a shallow-ish, wide-ish bucket, but the somewhat V bottom of the ski leads to lower primary stability which can make balancing while getting the legs over-and-in somewhat more tricky, particularly in messy conditions. Still not too hard but requires some skill. only rarely miss the first remount

Fenn Swordfish S - 4/10 - An 'advanced' boat by beam standards, the bucket is relatively deep and somewhat narrow. The rails on the side of the bucket at the thinnest point are pretty skinny, so they dont feel great if you put a lot of pressure on your body with them. The relatively deep seat means you need to have a relatively refined sequence for remounting without going over the other side while sliding into the bucket in messy conditions. occasionally miss the first remount, but never have struggled repeatedly to get back in. 

Epic V10 g0 (the 43cm version from like 2006) 2.5/10 - Low primary stability. relatively deep bucket. Low primary stability means you need to stay very centered when swinging your legs in from a side saddle or you will go over the other side easily. Also the deep bucket makes it hard to have your feet in the water comfortably while getting your wits back after a capsize before paddling away. 

I'm interested to hear other's thoughts on these boats and others!

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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1 month 2 weeks ago #34775 by Elnatx
I think this is a difficult thing to rate without setting a universal standard... But based on my limited experience, I'd rate the V8 a 7. 5, V10 sport a 6, Swordfish S a 5, and Nelo 560 ML a 3.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #34776 by SpaceSputnik
My experience is limited to V7 and Evo II. Having said that, I think beamy stable skis like a V7 can be more tricky to get across unless you are decently well practiced. As you tip it to thrust yourself over it all that beam can catch more wind and wave action and roll over you if you are not positioned quite right towards the elements and not keeping your head low. While I was leaning I would probably blow 30% of the attempts due to not being 100 percent dialed in. Once across sitting up is easy enough on a V7.
On an Evo, getting across is easier but sitting up is trickier due to lower primary. I finally figured out that sitting up quicker concentrating on sticking butt into the center of the bucket works better than slower, keep-low motion.
So different challenges I guess. I would say that once adapted to the V7 is 9 and Evo probably 8 (I think it will become 9 for me soon). 10 being some idealized boat.

Current: Think Evo II
Past: Epic V7

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1 month 2 weeks ago #34777 by Davidw
I think you need to look at Wesley's charts at surfskiracing.org...

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1 month 2 weeks ago #34785 by zachhandler
Another factor, but only for the narrowest craft, is the sharpness of the cockpit rim. The stellar SEA for example, which I actually really like, has an almost knife thin cockpit rim. Hanging over the cockpit rim is not a comfortable place to hang out. That said, the elites that these skis are aimed at almost never come out of a ski and are such gifted athletes that remounting is not a challenge for them. It is us intermediates that get into trouble when we test our mettle in elite skis. 
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34786 by SpaceSputnik
I recall seeing some kind of promotional video where someone (Dawid Mocke?) did a really swift cowboy remount on one of the narrow skis. It was so impressive, just one continuous motion. Too bad I can't find that video now.

Current: Think Evo II
Past: Epic V7
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1 month 2 weeks ago #34801 by s513649
I used to do a cowboy remount with no issues. I now have a Swordfish S, and am struggling with side saddle remounts, even in calming water. Any thoughts on different methods for the Swordfish S? Steve

Paddling a Swordfish S Hybrid, always paddle solo in the Noth Sea, all year long. Experienced, PE2EL, Scottburgh to Brighton, Pirates to Salt Rock, ‘Dusi, 50 miler etc, but still slow and tippy!

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1 month 1 week ago #34807 by robin.mousley

I used to do a cowboy remount with no issues. I now have a Swordfish S, and am struggling with side saddle remounts, even in calming water. Any thoughts on different methods for the Swordfish S? Steve

Hey Steve,

Sorry to hear about the challenges with remounting.

I've been doing the sidesaddle remount for years now - and don't find it a problem with the Swordfish S.  

What part of the remount trips you up?

I've refined my remount of late; I used to hold the paddle across the boat with my forward hand, but don't any more.

In detail, this is what I do: 
  • Make sure I'm on the windward side of the boat, which, if there's any wind, has been blown 90 degrees to the wind.
  • The back hand goes to the other side of the bucket, and I hold onto both the rail and the paddle.  So the paddle is resting alongside the rail, parallel with the boat.
  • I put my forward on the rail closest to me. 
  • I then boost myself out of the water onto the boat, over the bucket.  I can rest there if I want, then swivel around and get my bum into the bucket.  Both legs are still in the water on the windward side.
  • I'm now holding the paddle with both hands.  I can sit like that to get my breath back - the boat and I are in a pretty stable situation, especially if the wind is strong.
  • I can actually start paddling now - we sometimes practise this as a drill: a strong stroke and swivel your legs across to the other side of the boat, a stroke on that side and swivel your legs back.
  • I bring one leg into the boat - and if I'm sitting on the side of the bucket instead of the middle, I lean right back onto the back deck, which automatically causes my backside to slide into the centre of the bucket.
  • Then I get the other leg in and away I go.
For me, this is a pretty foolproof method - even in rough, windy conditions.

I have found it less than easy to execute on boats with narrow, deep cockpits, but for me this works perfectly on the Swordfish.Cheers,
Rob 

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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1 month 1 week ago #34809 by Henning DK
As a comment on the side saddle remount, I have found that I have better stability in the sideways position, if my angle to the boat is about 45° (certainly not 90°), and my outer leg is bend to get good contact with side of the ski as well as allowing my butt to slide down into the seat.
Illustration attached, from a small leaflet on surfski I wrote (in Danish)
/ Henning
Attachments:
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1 month 1 week ago #34811 by robin.mousley

Illustration attached, from a small leaflet on surfski I wrote (in Danish)

Ha - your diagram shows exactly what I do!  I'm going to OCR your leaflet and re-write it in English.  Brilliant!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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1 month 1 week ago #34814 by Henning DK
The complete version of my surfski intro, if you're interested:
www.facebook.com/download/preview/2359669581022874
Let me know, if you can't see it - feel free to reuse illustrations or other parts, if you wish.
The following user(s) said Thank You: robin.mousley, Hiro, mortenlinding

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1 month 1 week ago #34817 by s513649
Thanks rob, by ‘other side of the bucket’ (bullet 2), do you mean far side (which is consistent with what I do? Do you hold the paddle on the far or near side (relative to your body)? I hold it on the near side. My instability comes as soon as my bum hits the bucket first time - I either go too far or not far enough. Regards, Steve

Paddling a Swordfish S Hybrid, always paddle solo in the Noth Sea, all year long. Experienced, PE2EL, Scottburgh to Brighton, Pirates to Salt Rock, ‘Dusi, 50 miler etc, but still slow and tippy!

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1 month 1 week ago #34822 by Hiro

Henning DK wrote: The complete version of my surfski intro, if you're interested:
www.facebook.com/download/preview/2359669581022874
Let me know, if you can't see it - feel free to reuse illustrations or other parts, if you wish.


If you and Robin are OK, I'd like to translate Robin's version to french when he's done. (I can't read Danish, sorry).

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1 month 1 week ago #34823 by Henning DK
A quick and nice solution would be to simply use my drawings with Robs text, almost same result ;-)
(maybe this belongs in a different thread?)

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1 month 1 week ago #34861 by mortenlinding
Hi Henning
I will use it our club in Frederikssund. Hope thats ok.
I think i gives a very good intro to surfski. We just got two V8 pro this season. The first surfskis in our kayak/rowing club

Current ski: Carbonology Vault Hybrid 1. Gen / Nordic kayaks Storm / SS2 Carbonology Zest

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1 month 1 week ago #34862 by Henning DK
Sure Morten, that's what it was made for :-)

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1 month 4 days ago #34876 by waverider
Mistake I was making when learning to remount was immediately after twisting butt into seat i would let go the far rail and try to put two hands on the paddle while not yet sitting balanced and stable. Typically one blade would have dipped in the water and as I as trying to retreive it over I would go as I was still off centre in the bucket.  All became simple when I kept my hand firmly on the outer rail, and pushing down if necessary, whilst I adjust/shuffled my butt into the centre if necessary. Only then remove my hand and pick the blade up with two hands.

So for me there are two stability check pauses, firstly when you have first crossed the ski, and secondly once you are side saddle, and dont move to next step until each is optimum

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