Help! Shortening an Epic Wing Paddle

9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #10530 by Kocho
I wonder if removing both blades is necessary... chopping off 2x from one side only probably will not unballance the paddle that much other than visually with the lock being a bit offset to one side...

The shorter overall length (or should I say, the "right" length) does make a difference - I could keep my hands spread out where I wanted without having to deal with too long of a blade outside of my hand.

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9 years 6 months ago #10532 by DougMar
Thanks OFW. What I really want to know is: Can you release the adhesive of the Epic paddle/shaft joint with a heat source without degrading the structural resin matrix of the paddle/shaft, or is the adhesive's softening temp point too high?

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9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #10534 by Kocho
Here are my observations from my repair. When I tried to heat-up the lock to remove it, I could not. I stopped because I feared I would melt the shaft. So I cut the shaft at the lock, then heated again, this time not worrying about melting it since that short piece would be thrown away. I had to heat so much to soften the adhesive there that the shaft indeed softened and I still could not remove it in one piece - I had to break it out piece by piece and scrape off the rest from the lock inside. The plastic did not budge in the process.

On the other hand, the other half of the paddle did not need much heat at all. The carbon insert tube came off very easy with minimum heating.

So, I think you got 50-50 chance ;) I suppose you can try it and see if it comes off easy or not. In the case of the center insert, shortly after I started heating it the adhesive simply started to bubble out slightly and I knew I could stop and pull it out. Unfortunately, hard to quantify the heat... I just kept going at it with the heat gun moving all the time so that I would not create a hot spot and covering enough shaft length so that all areas where there is an insert would be up to temperature at the same time. Also, keep in mind the heat needs some time to travel inwards to reach the adhesive, so it takes a minute or two at least if not slightly more of constant careful heating at all sides to get the inside hot - this means you probably do not want to overheat the outside in the process if your heat gun is very powerful.

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9 years 6 months ago #10536 by DougMar
Well, ok then... here goes nothin'!

Also, recently purchased a trio of sweet Bracsa paddles from David Kelly (VI max, VII min and max). Awesome paddles, though after using them for the past two months, I feel as though I should really shorten these, too. I'm gonna get in touch with the Bracsa master himself for this one, that is if no-one here has any experience disassembling these paddles.
I'll keep y'all posted on the results of my heat-gun adventures.

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9 years 6 months ago #10537 by holonalu
Replied by holonalu on topic Re: Help! Shortening an Epic Wing Paddle
I have the Bracsa paddle as well. If you use a two part epoxy to bond the blade to the shaft you can break the bond with a hair dryer, just be REAL careful as you heat it up. Apply heat while pulling on the blade you want to remove. When I finally got the length I wanted, I covered the end with plastic bag material, then pushed the blade back on without any chemical fastener. The plastic kind of acts as a thickener for the shaft, so when you push the blade back on, you can still adjust the pitch, but it takes a lot of force to get it to move, and I doubt if it will ever fall off.

Aloha from the Land of the Whacked out surfers (I read about that in a book)

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9 years 6 months ago #10541 by wintermutt
FYI
epic will shorten paddles (for a price).

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9 years 6 months ago #10542 by DougMar
Wow, great tip....I'll get my checkbook ready... How much?!? NOT! :ohmy:

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9 years 6 months ago #10543 by Miller
it is not an epic paddle so they will not repair it, you have a copy of an epic. If it is not branded with epic stickers then it is not an epic en of the story, does not matter if it looks the same. By the way you should do proper research and make sure what length will suit you best before you buy it, or try out a friends paddle first and see if it suits you then you would not have had to go through all this trouble.

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9 years 6 months ago #10547 by Rightarmbad
Neither of my paddles have Epic stickers on them, I took them off.
Are they now not Epic paddles?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 6 months ago #10548 by Miller
The paddle is actually branded Peregrine, but it is an Epic (probably both made and assembled by Epic at some point)

this is what i was revering to, if this paddle was branded with Peregrine stickers then it is not an epic paddle.

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9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #10550 by ccchappell
Well Epic repaired my Mid Wing that was label free :) . During a Salem Sound league race was having a bad day and broke the paddle over my knee...did not think out the strategy how to get back to shore...hmm. The swim "sobered" me up!!

Good news is Epic replace the busted shaft and upgraded to the lever lock. My son's go to paddle now. Good as new!!

Chris

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9 years 6 months ago #10553 by CyberSki
Chris - remind me to never loan you one of my paddles...

:laugh:

Fenn Swordfish and Epic Midwing.

Past skis include Stellar SR and SEL, KC Zeplin, Think EVO, and in-between version of Epic V8 Ultra. Jantex Gamma is my sword of pain..though my elbow may force me to a smaller blade now. :-(

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9 years 2 months ago #12181 by Rightarmbad
So in the end, what is the verdict?
I want to shorten one of my Epics.

I have already epoxied the lock and inner shaft back on due to earlier failure, so I don't know if I can get them apart again.

It also appears to ovalise very quickly and I can see and feel the oval on the outside of the tube right up to joint on both sides.

So is the oval only external?
If so, I would be quite happy to just cut off the lever side and get a new one.

Or does the blade come apart on these easily with heating?
I would prefer this method as I want to shorten it by a full 10cm.

This is my older 210 to 220cm paddle that I only use for overload training anyways and I really want to try going shorter than the 205cm my other paddle goes to.

So has anybody here removed the blades on these epics and shortened them?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 2 months ago #12182 by Kocho
Didn't someone post that they were able to remove the blades by heating the joints? IMO that would be the preferred way for the Epics, provided the blades do come off easy enough... The straight circular section before it becomes oval in the central joint is indeed short and chopping-off an inch already puts the insert beyond it...

I have no apparent problems with mine after shortening one of the halves at the middle by about an inch, but if I had to do it again I would attack the blade side for more peace of mind.

On a separate note, I used 3M 5200 Fast Setting Marine Adhesive to reattach the center lock-joint and the joining tube. Works pretty well and I don't think they are coming off accidentally.

Please, let us know how you do with the shortening - I might be interested in chopping off another inch or two off my paddle if the blades come off easy, but don't feel comfortable removing any more from the center.

One caution for the blades would be that the blade join I feel experiences stronger forces in use on the water compared to the center shaft join. So when reattaching the blades one has to do it in a strong enough way. Epoxy would work for sure, but that would probably result in a permanent bond (OK if no further work is needed, not OK if you need to replace one blade for some reason).

I suppose, one can shorten only half the paddle, removing only one blade. The center lock will no longer be in the exact center, but it does not matter - it is not in the center anyway for most settings when the shaft is adjusted for length b/w 0 and 10cm even on the original non-shortened paddle...

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9 years 2 months ago #12183 by johnno1977
Replied by johnno1977 on topic Re: Help! Shortening an Epic Wing Paddle
The shafts are the same inside and out. Thus if they look round on the outside they are round on the inside, if they look oval they are oval. If you don't have enough round for the insert to go into or if it starts to become oval you will have issues.

I have oval shafts, inserts and flip loks by the dozens. If you need something repaired or altered I can do this for a very reasonable cost or you can purchase the parts and do it yourself.

Cheers
John
Zenith Sport Sciences
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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9 years 2 months ago #12185 by Rightarmbad
The shaft is actually oval where the inner piece inserts, so the inner section must be round there.
My other identical except for 5cm shorter length paddle looks the same.

It may be hard to remove the blade as the oval will stop it being turned and it must be withdrawn straight out.
Would make aligning upon reassembly easy though.

I don't care if I only end up with 5cm range adjust as my other paddle takes over from 205cm anyways, I just want to find what the paddling limits to shortness are and what effects show their head.

So I figure 200cm would be the shortest I could reasonably go looking at my hand position.

If I could get the inner sleeve out again,I would be happy to lop off 10cm from there and epoxy.

Will heat loosen 5 minute epoxy?
Before the shaft melts?


I wonder if Epic would make me a really short fully adjustable paddle?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 2 months ago #12186 by Rightarmbad
Where are you based johnno?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 2 months ago #12187 by cjborg
I've had success shortening several paddles from the center, two of them oval shaft, one of those an Epic Signature Series. I was as concerned for the oval-to-round transition vis-a-vis shortening them from the blade-ends as much as from the middle. The blade ends of an oval shaft also transition to round, and if you shorten that oval section too much, the blades won't re-insert completely.

You have the same potential problem shortening from the center, but in that case, you can always cut down the male end of the insert just a bit so that it isn't impeded as the female end transitions to oval. I had to do this on both oval shaft paddles I shortened; it does slightly reduce the range of length-adjustment, but otherwise does not seem to affect performance.

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9 years 2 months ago #12194 by johnno1977
Replied by johnno1977 on topic Re: Help! Shortening an Epic Wing Paddle
Perth (Kingsley) WA

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9 years 2 months ago #12195 by Dicko
5 minute epoxy softens at 65 degrees and full strength at 90 degree.
It would be easier to cut the shaft near the locking clasp and use a screw driver to gently ease the old shaft out. If you want to try heat, wrap alfoil around the shaft and heat the locking shaft gently and every so often twist the lock until it gives. I always use 5 minute epoxy, usually from the $2 shop, cos it is easy to fix or remove later on. When you reglue it use babywipes to tidy up the excess (they dissolve anything).

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