× Tips and techniques for getting the most out of surfskiing.

Newly Purchased Epic V10 Ultra Doesn't Allow Proper Leg Pump

2 months 3 weeks ago #36451 by zachhandler

SpaceSputnik wrote: Yes, unfortunately humps get in a way of ergonomics. This is a big issue for me at 5'6" the extent of which I am now realizing having spend a winter on an ergo. I just can't rotate that well in the Evo, so I will be selling this boat. SES is better, but also not ideal. I am actually considering a switch to an FSK like 18x because I am just not getting anywhere with surfskis.


have you looked at the think jet? Might be a good option if you are under 165 pounds. 

http://thinkkayak.com/kayak/think-jet/

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36452 by SpaceSputnik

zachhandler wrote:

SpaceSputnik wrote: Yes, unfortunately humps get in a way of ergonomics. This is a big issue for me at 5'6" the extent of which I am now realizing having spend a winter on an ergo. I just can't rotate that well in the Evo, so I will be selling this boat. SES is better, but also not ideal. I am actually considering a switch to an FSK like 18x because I am just not getting anywhere with surfskis.


have you looked at the think jet? Might be a good option if you are under 165 pounds. 

http://thinkkayak.com/kayak/think-jet/


Yes, it would be a better fit for me probably, however to be honest with you with a ski I am losing about 6 months to cold weather, the time I can spend paddling a sit-inside very comfortably. Dimension-wise, Jet is not much different from something like Kape Mistral and probably about the same speed-wise. 

Current: Epic 18x Sport, Stellar SES 1g.
Past: Think Evo II, Epic V7

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36454 by jjhall
I understand.  It's frustrating to like a boat and find out it isn't the best fit. 

I've made some inroads with the V10.  Some guys showed me how to angle the footboard up by putting some hard foam under the plate.  This helped quite a bit.  I padded the seat up, slightly, and moved the footboard toward me to nearly the full extent.  It's much better, but I still can't get the desired leg drive.  My calves hit the hump pretty quickly.

Don't give up on skis if you like them.  I tried a gen 1 Stellar SEL.  It has a narrow cockpit and very low hump.  I was able to get  the leg drive I did in the kayaks.   If this boat has the allowance for smaller paddlers to get proper leg drive then there must be others.  (If I hadn't just bought the V10 I'd look for one of these.)

I'm going to go the race next month in Wekiva and check out the boats, there.

Take care!
Jack

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36455 by zachhandler
Space sputnik I think it comes down to how badly you need the unique features of skis,   namely sit on top cockpit and understern rudder. If downwind is not your focus then a kayak is probably just fine. 

I too paddle a lot of cold water, though personally I feel much safer in a tippy fast ski than in a tippy fast kayak when the water is icy. The coldness of the exposed cockpit also makes it easier for me to tolerate dressing for exposure with neoprene. 

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36456 by Epicpaddler
I'm looking at an Epic v10 or similar to move up from my v8pro. I'm 6'1 195lbs, so I can't say I'm affected by the hump. I really love ergonomics of the v8pro, so I'm hoping the higher cockpit of the v10 won't impact my performance.

As to paddling a ski, it's almost a night and day difference from my sea kayak. I have nice foot pedals on my sea kayak, but I can't seem to get the same torso rotation that I can in the ski. This is the first winter I paddled my ski exclusively. Last winter I retreated to the warm coziness of the closed cockpit and neoprene skirt. I tried paddling in a drysuit, but quickly worked myself into a lather and decided that neoprene was better for performance paddling. Around here we use rotational cooling.(just rolling the kayak to cool off) which sounds crazy when the water is slightly above freezing.

One other thing I've noticed since I started paddling a ski is I'm less focused on relaxing and enjoying the scenery. Some would say this is a bad thing. The ski has improved my fitness because almost every time I go out I try to beat my old time or paddle further. So SpaceSputnik I guess it comes down to why you are on the water in the first place. I am content in my ski or sea kayak, but if I had to choose to keep just on boat I think it would be my ski.

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36457 by waverider

Epicpaddler wrote: One other thing I've noticed since I started paddling a ski is I'm less focused on relaxing and enjoying the scenery. Some would say this is a bad thing. The ski has improved my fitness because almost every time I go out I try to beat my old time or paddle further. So SpaceSputnik I guess it comes down to why you are on the water in the first place. I am content in my ski or sea kayak, but if I had to choose to keep just on boat I think it would be my ski.


I think this is a noticeable thing with skis and K1s you do tend to get the rotation and leg drive and generally get your move on automatically. I think with other kayaks , even if they are fast kayaks, there is a tendency to just do recreational paddling unless you make a determined effort to go fast. For some reason paddling a ski or k1 at less than 9-10kmh just feels unnatural for me. It would take a conscious effort to go slower

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2 months 3 weeks ago - 2 months 3 weeks ago #36459 by SpaceSputnik
I am all for pushing for speed. As a matter of fact that's almost all I do on water. I look more at my Garmin than the scenery. Having to fight against a boat and my own body makes it very frustrating and tiring.

Earlier today I sold my Evo to a friend who really wanted it. Few hours later I drove out and brought home a used 18x Sport. Didn't get to paddle it due to Covid closures, but from just sitting in it I feel that the fit of that kayak is very very good for me. With knees up I rotate better than in the Evo or a V7. My low leg gets to straighten almost entirely, pressure gets applied to the pedals naturally and everything just feels good. Leg driving knees apart feels pretty decent too and the boat feels like it would be very rollable.
I didn't mean to turn it into kayak vs ski discussion (certainly not the right forum for it). Both styles of the boat have its audiences. I personally have gone through a lot of frustration with skis due to my particular build but in spirit I am more of a surfski paddler than a sea kayaker in it's popular British form. At this juncture I feel that 18x is just about the best boat ergonomically and in terms of culture fit. I might lose 1km/h compared to Evo but that's ok.
Since I bought the 18x used I can afford to keep the SES and give it more of a chance. On a calmer and warmer day it may be a lot of fun as well. 

Current: Epic 18x Sport, Stellar SES 1g.
Past: Think Evo II, Epic V7

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2 months 3 weeks ago #36461 by jjhall
I feel you won't be disappointed if getting a V10.  Even though the V10 Ultra I just got doesn't fit me quite as well as I'd like, it offers a great deal of stability and speed when you want it.  There's enough stability that on reasonably calm days I attach a deck bag with water and grub and can tour for the day without fear of falling out.  

It has excellent build quality and is very light (27 lbs) to handle.  

At my size, I wish I'd been a little more patient and waited to try a V10L or one of the others that have been suggested on this forum, but I got a great deal on the V10 Ultra and really like it to a point I think I'll keep it even if I get a smaller, more narrow boat that fits me because I know this type of boat will not be as stable as the V10.

Take care!
Jack

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