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What is a normal speed?

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13 years 3 months ago #2928 by paddlehammo
I paddle in an area with no other surfski's. I am not sure if my average speed is good or bad and need some kind of a benchmark to aim towards. What is an average speed on flat water and what can the top guys achieve on flat water?

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13 years 3 months ago #2929 by garykroukamp
I'm an average/middle of the field paddler and get about 10.5 to 11 km/h on average on flattish water.

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  • StuartXpat
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13 years 3 months ago #2930 by StuartXpat
Replied by StuartXpat on topic Re:What is a normal speed?
Effort goes up after 10kmh - I think you should be able to hold 10kmh with little effort. As Gary says, 10.5 gets harder, 11, you may start breathing hard. I think an average paddler should be able to hold 13 to 14kph for a few hundred metres and the top paddlers can hold 16.

Also depends a lot on your boat. Don't feel bad if you start breathing hard at 9.5kmh in an XT or a Surf 60 for example.

Stuart

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13 years 3 months ago #2932 by richardh
Replied by richardh on topic Re:What is a normal speed?
Thanks Stuart - I feel a lot better now about my speed now.

I recently read an article on a new plastic ski from a WA (Australia) manufacturer where a guy (good paddler) thought he could hold 13km/hr for an hour!!!

I'm on a glass ski and I can only hold that for a few hundred metres.

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13 years 3 months ago #2933 by paddlehammo
Thanks for the input folks, good to now I am on the right track because I felt I was paddling blind without an idea of my progress. Cheers. Marcus

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13 years 3 months ago #2937 by postal256
If you take a look at K1 marathon championship times, you'll see most guys paddle for ~2.5 hours at around 12-13kph. The guys at the very back will come in around 11.5 kph and a few go just over 13, but that's about the limit. Keep in mind they are in ridiculously light, fast boats, they train just for this type of event, and consider the role drafting might play in overall speed for the guys up front..

If you have a fast surfski and aren't there yet, I'd say 11-11.5 (or 7 mph) for an hour is something good to work towards in general.

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13 years 1 month ago #3116 by DenielHop
There is no such concept of wind what one should keep in mind that speed should be kept as smooth as normal and parallel to blowing mind.

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13 years 1 month ago - 13 years 1 month ago #3131 by J
Replied by J on topic 13kph for K1 -> ??kph for surfski
From racing K1 I agree about the 13kph on marathons.
Since surfskis have a longer hull they ought to have a higher hullspeed assuming all the rest is comparable with the K1. But is that really giving you a better chance to beat a K1 paddler on a flatwater marathon?

In a K1 there is kind of a wall coming against the paddler which is related to the hullspeed. In sprintdistances that wall can be pushed a little by more muscle top strength, which however adds to body weight, and increases drag.

If you'd paddle a fast and narrow K1 and comparable longer surfski for a longer distance and the same highest common speed: Which boat would require the least effort for that distance? And which boat would travel the longest distance using the same engergy?
Last edit: 13 years 1 month ago by J.

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13 years 1 month ago #3132 by Shaun
Jons:

In flat water with everything else being equal, a K1 will be faster than a surfski every time.

The hull shape of a Sprint K1 is very different than a ski, and that is where the extra efficiency comes from. The extra length on a surfski isn't enough to overcome the much more efficient hull shape of a K1. Underwater, the surfski is much wider with a relatively flat cross-section and more rocker for surfing and turning.

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13 years 1 month ago - 13 years 1 month ago #3133 by nell
There is no one answer to your questions, Jons. Drag between an ICF K1 and a ski like the V10 is different. In the K1, skin friction resistance is low but wave resistance is high once you get going pretty fast, i.e. 14 kph. A strong paddler can "overcome" some of that wave resistance in a sprint, but at marathon pace, you're left with the sum of regular friction resistance and wave resistance - most of which is wave resistance in the K1.

On a ski, the wave resistance is less, but friction resistance is more than with the K1. One therefore does not hit that "wall" of wave resistance that is encountered in the K1. But, then, you can't push over that "wall" with the longer ski in a sprint, either.

At lower speeds, when wave resistance is low, the K1 should be the more efficient boat for energy/distance calculations, generally speaking. At higher marathon racing speeds, the edge should go to a boat with a longer waterline - something like the V12 because its wave drag is so much less than the K1's wave drag, even though it has higher skin friction drag.

Also, a speed comparison between an ICF K1 and a ski depends on the weight of the paddler. A lightweight paddler will be faster in marathon and sprint in the ICF K1, but a real heavyweight paddler (like Oscar) will be faster in a marathon in a ski like the V12 because the K1 is too short and too narrow and sinks too low in the water to be an efficient hullform. For a sprint? I don't know, but I think the heavyweight might be faster in the ICF K1 if he/she is powerful enough.

From what I understand, the ICF K1's speed is limited by its short length - even though it's still an incredibly fast boat. I've read that the optimal K1 length for an average weight male is somewhere around 6.5 m. I believe it's like rowing shells in that there is a different length and width shell that is optimal for a paddler of a given weight.

Even though they make K1's for "heavyweights", they're tweaked for a better wave profile while keeping within ICF overall length rules. They also have bigger volume decks to fit the bigger paddlers. And conversely, the 21 ft skis aren't the most efficient hullforms for the 55 kg paddlers on flatwater, either.

Erik
Last edit: 13 years 1 month ago by nell.

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13 years 1 month ago #3140 by J
From what you are saying I should not expect to be faster with my homebuilt/designed surfski than with my old model ICF K1 when doing a 20km flatwater race. A couple of reasons being: Rocker, poor skin finish.
The rocker is there and cannot change on this boat for increased top speed. Skin finish can and will be improved and eventually I could be faster on one or both short and long distance.
It also seems that the optimal boat would be custom built for each paddler according to physical dimensions and strength, and to balancing, bracing, paddling and technique skills. Still puzzled and curious for more testruns.

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