Knock-off paddles

7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #22023 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Knock-off paddles

interestingly Hank Mcgregor has gone back to GP3 (letterman nordic) blade in this last weekends K1/K2 world canoe champs in oklahoma: amazing paddling performance & great advert for this currently less popular shaped blade - it looked like he was the only paddler with this shaped blade.........


And over in the sprint world, the new 100 K1 champion, Josef Dostal races with Guts. And his crew (who are now holders of the new world best time I believe) are K4 1000 champs, also use parallel shape Guts.

Australia has always had a solid following for parallel blades with Olympic champions like Kenny Wallace using them. That said, most of the younger crop of paddlers all use tear drops.

Paddle selection is definitely one very personal feel part of paddling, and we're pretty fortunate with the selection out there on the market.

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7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #22024 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Knock-off paddles
OOps, double post!

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7 years 1 month ago #22026 by TaffyMick
Replied by TaffyMick on topic Knock-off paddles
Stewart,

Good call.

Have owned and paddled a large number of skis from various manufacturers over the years including Fenn, Epic, Stealth (SA fishing ski) and now Stellar. No Think though.

Some of these skis were of South African manufacture and some Chinese. I have yet to see any difference in the quality and finish of these boats. Okay, I am a couple of years shy of 60 and my eyesight might not be the best, but if someone can put a Chinese and SA manufactured boat side by side and tell the difference between them purely based on the standard of manufacturing...well you are a better man than me Gunga Din and you should become a Ski Quality Control Consultant... you will make a motza.

Again, have not paddled a Think, but from what I have seen they look the bees knees and the ducks guts.

My Stellar skis are manufactured at Flying Eagle Boat Co., which has over 25 yrs of composite boat building experience, near Hangzhou City in China. It is a subsidiary of Sino-Eagle Group, which produces Kayaks, Surf Skis, Rowing Shells, Oar, Paddles, Surf Boards & SUP’s, Sails boats, Luxury Yachts and more.

Yeah, pretty happy with my Chinese manufactured skis. Excellent finish, layout and of a very high standard.

Cheers,
Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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7 years 1 month ago #22027 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Knock-off paddles


Kocho,

Not for the first time (in fact, almost every post you make slanders ...


Stew, this is complete B.S. What I've written is accurate and factual. And far from "every post I make". It is not "slander". The very fact that I bought Think skis with my own money, twice, means I am not predisposed against them. The first one was a dud - I can accept that it was partially due to misuse by previous owner/its life as a demo. The second ski was bought brand new. In it I see some of the same traits that I saw in the "dud". Am I making this up? No, I am not. Are your customers not seeing the same? No idea. I'm not generalizing. I am not biased to protect or bash anyone's product. You, as a dealer, however, are quite biased "for" your brand. I bought my Epics with my own money too, just like the Thinks. When I compare Epic's quality of manufacture with that of my 2 Thinks, I see specific differences in the quality of materials, quality of assembly, and attention to detail during production. Neither is perfect. Why did you not protect Epic from my "slander" in another post that their new bailer is not totally waterproof, or that it does not work well half-open? Or that the new V10 is way heavier than the old one? So why do you get upset when I say that pink construction foam has no place as a stringer in a ski that is meant to last for more than one or two races (this is s material that easily compresses and deforms and delaminates from the hull extremely easy - it has the wrong properties for the application!)? When I see such differences, should I not share? I would say, take it as a constructive criticism and improve the products. Don't try to misrepresent what I shared and refrain from trying to undermine my factual statements.

Lastly, you may be confusing me with someone else who also had less than favorable experience with a particular Think ski and who was much more vocal about it!

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7 years 1 month ago #22030 by tony h
Replied by tony h on topic Knock-off paddles
agree Stew with ongoing popularity of parallel blades among many - the GP3 / letterman nordic is distinctly different IMO: long elongated shape is quite unusual & not common like the GUT shapes / Meek G / Stealth parallel blades

See pic below

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend
Attachments:

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7 years 1 month ago #22035 by Ranga
Replied by Ranga on topic Knock-off paddles
I wonder if GARA are paying royalties to whomever this or all their other shapes they are producing.

This is what I am talking about!

We think because the top paddlers are using the product means they are legitimate, this is far from the truth.

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7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #22036 by tony h
Replied by tony h on topic Knock-off paddles
good question!
what constitutes a copy?
with only 5-6 original shapes it becomes very difficult to tell what is similar or is a direct copy........... have paddled the GP2 which is supposedly 'similar' to jantex gamma but even tho' they are similar shape they feel different in the water.
so I imagine if 5% change is all that is required to not be a copy, many of the supposed copies are in fact just similar & not strictly speaking copies.
so whilst GARA 2/3/4 may look like jantex gamma, lettman nordic, brasca 4 respectively, they may not be strictly speaking copies if there are more than 5% change?
as far as I know all the original shapes are more than 15yrs old & there has been no new paddle designs recently?
unfortunately the 'copy' topic is far from black & white

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 1 month ago #22038 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Knock-off paddles
Seriously guys. Anyone would think Epic invented the wing paddle and surfski. I'm certain they didn't. Imitation happens in every field.

What about thruster fins on surfboards, or even boards for that matter.
They go through trends, but they are all variations on a theme.

I suspect surfski is the same. Epic didn't invent the ski or paddle, so they have no rights to claim copyright infringement. They have altered the shape of a previous invention. They may have altered the way the previous invention is manufactured, but that is only a refinement of a previous idea.

The only NEW innovation that has happened in skis since I have been paddling is the invention of the bullet. Do red 7 get a return from anyone that uses bullets on their skis. I doubt it.

If you want a cheap paddle, buy a maxpaddle ex SA online. Is it a knockoff, I have no idea. I don't think so. But it seems as tough as nails and has a brilliant lever lock.

As for getting what you pay for. I know of 4 paddles that have broken. Every one was a supposedly top end paddle from the same manufacturer.
So I'm not convinced you do get what you pay for.
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7 years 1 month ago #22043 by Ranga
Replied by Ranga on topic Knock-off paddles
Who mentioned the Epic brand?

But then this is the typical response to anyone on the other side of the argument, they don't care till it effects them directly.

Generally the phrase is, " its only a paddle, what the problem?"
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5 years 11 months ago #25281 by Kes6222
Replied by Kes6222 on topic Knock-off paddles
To start, I don't understand why everyone is so negative. Almost everything you all buy and use daily is made from
China. You all have so many comments and opinions, but how many of you have bought an rpc3 paddle?? That's what I thought. You can all have your soeculations and opions, but until you actually use one of these you shouldn't input. If you haven't noticed all paddles have pretty much the same design. Sorry to rant, but I'm so over listening to negative people who have no idea what they're talking about. I PERSONALLY BOUGHT one of these paddle and have never been happier. From customer service to product I wouldn't recommend anyone but rpc3. If you haven't bought the product and don't know what your talking about please don't respond to posts.....
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5 years 11 months ago #25283 by Mike Blake
Replied by Mike Blake on topic Knock-off paddles
I do hope that rangas mob are paying royalties to the Inuit peoples that they ripped the idea from though.

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5 years 11 months ago #25288 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic Knock-off paddles
I am so pumped! I have been agonizingly looking for a new paddle for a reasonable price. Enjoy my ORCA inner but it is showing signs of fatigue and want to replace it before it fails.
So, I just ordered a RPC3 small wing for $224.00 US with free shipping. About half the price of most options.
All I can hope is that it is not a piece of junk and I like it.
Thanks guys! Love this forum

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5 years 11 months ago #25290 by photofr
Replied by photofr on topic Knock-off paddles
Don't mean to add oil to the fire… but perhaps I can provide some facts that may help a little.

So many piece of equipment is now being produced in China, and we can all see that the quality is improving.
Like many of you, given the choice, I'd prefer to buy something made in the USA, Canada, SA, Australia, etc… but if you want a Cannondale bike, it will no longer be made in Pennsylvania USA.
Perhaps a better question is: do really want everything to be built locally and will we promote our local products?

The other side of the coin is rather different:
Made in China doesn't automatically mean a knock-off.
Knock-off cannot possibly dictate the price of "real" products built with Research, Development, Extensive Testing, Lots of trial and error, Marketing, Sponsoring, Warranty, Customer Service etc…because knock off products will not provide any of the above.
Knowingly buying a knock off reminds me a lot of the guy who lives 5 miles from my house. He bought an Audi A6 (fully loaded with leather) USED, but but costing him only a fraction of its really used-value. The car was stolen. Knowingly buying a knock off is just like buying a stolen car. Don't try to defend your action, you know there's no defense.

To the people who continuously use knock-off products, or to those people who continue to use photos that do not belong to them: it's just plain wrong.

In case you missed it: Should we buy knock-offs because they are more expansive or cheaper?
Absolutely NOT - at least, this is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. :woohoo:

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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5 years 11 months ago #25292 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Knock-off paddles
Just to put it out there again, all RPC3 paddles are $20 off until Dec 31.

That's a 27oz full carbon wing paddle for $220... pretty hard to beat.

As for the original topic, listen to/read the story here: www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361229/the-hov...ot-product-come-from

Its quite informative as to how the future of manufacturing will be.

Currently paddling a Kai Wa'a Vega Flex in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10g1, Stellar SRg1, Fenn XTg1, Swordfish S
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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5 years 11 months ago #25330 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic Knock-off paddles
Actually it's effing easy;

Building knock offs is theft.
Knowingly buying knock offs is theft.


Without people taking the investment risk, having the balls, the genuity, dedication and creativity to make new stuff against all drawbacks, there would not be anything left to "knock off" one day.

People without creativity who never created something on their own normally don't see why it's wrong to buy knock offs, I understand that. I also understand that some need to look for lower prices (but why not buy used or cheaper non-knock-offs?). I am just adressing know-offs, not made in China. So if one needs to save money on cheap paddles, fine, but why "steal" ?

If everybody buys cheap, we all end up working cheap.

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