Surfski Drysuit?

2 years 1 month ago #32580 by DrA5
Surfski Drysuit? was created by DrA5
About a month or so ago, Oscar showed a surfski specific drysuit he was testing that appeared to be a morphing of a wet suit and dry suit together. He promised more info shortly after his Instagram post, but I haven't seen anything since. Was there any further information on release? Material make up? Retailers? Cost? Benefits?

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2 years 1 month ago #32587 by mortenlinding
Replied by mortenlinding on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Hi
try to look at this page www.paddleskin.com/

regards
Morten

Current ski: Carbonology Vault Hybrid 1. Gen / Nordic kayaks Storm / SS2 Carbonology Zest

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2 years 1 month ago #32588 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I know nothing about the supskin other than what's on their website, but 10k waterproof rating does not appear to be very waterproof compared to other fabrics in the chart here:
www.paddypallin.com.au/blog/all-about-waterproof-fabrics/
Plus neoprene cuffs and collar will transmit water too.

If you take an extended swim, will this suit stay dry?

To me, it sounds like a paddling suit, not a dry suit. Dry suits stay dry. Paddling suits will get wet inside after swimming a while. A bit misleading to call it a dry suit on their site. It sounds like a paddling suit which is not the same level of protection as a drysuit.

That said, for moderately cold water its probably ok. And if it's cut for fitness paddling that may be an advantage too. My Kokatat Goretex suit is quite comfortable, but has a decent amount of extra fabric in the shoulders by design

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
The following user(s) said Thank You: SurfskiEstonia

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2 years 1 month ago #32634 by SpaceSputnik
Replied by SpaceSputnik on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I am wondering, does there have to be a ski-specific drysuit? I mean a properly fitting drysuit should not be tight to allow for layering.
I use a Stohlquist Amp which is a kayaking suit and barely notice it when it's on me. It's completely waterproof (knock on wood that it stays so :D) with latex gaskets. The only irrelevant feature is a tunnel for a kayak spray skirt but it doesn't pose a problem at all.

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2 years 1 month ago #32643 by SurfskiEstonia
Replied by SurfskiEstonia on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I tried to use my kayaking drysuit with a surfski, decided to abandon cold water paddling altogether after about 10 times. The drysuit itself doesn't keep the body warm, it needs layering as MCImes said.

The minimum layers are a baselayer and a thick fleece layer. A proper drysuit has socks, which needs additional warm socks underneath and some neoprene boots over them. This makes the whole combination quite heavy and the feel of the ski is very much reduced, making capsizing more likely and successful remounts less likely.

Maybe on very stable skis it would be manageable, but in my opinion not on fast ones. Even the latex cuffs let water in after some heavy bracing :D, can't imagine neoprene ones coping with that. Then again there are people with much cleaner technique than mine, who don't shovel as much water in their suit :)

Nelo Ocean Ski L, Jantex Gamma Mid, Jantex Gamma Rio Large Minus

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2 years 1 month ago #32645 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic Surfski Drysuit?
The cuffs are obviously neoprene rubber, not neoprene foam wetsuit material.

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2 years 1 month ago #32646 by SpaceSputnik
Replied by SpaceSputnik on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I know some kayakers who dislike drysuits and wear wetsuits instead when temperature allows. I am not sure exactly why. My suit feels quite natural even layered heavily. I used to have a larger size Kokatat and that felt a little bulky. Stohlquist Amp uses lighter fabric (the whole thing litterally weighs less when you hold it), and has a more form-fitting cut and is sized better for me. Just saying these things make a fair bit of difference.
But then it does seem highly personal.

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1 year 10 months ago #33288 by TomVW
Replied by TomVW on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Hi all,

I recently purchased a paddleskin drysuit and figured I might as well share my thoughts here.
In a nutshell: very happy so far:
- it feels very light and flexible. I don't notice wearing it.
- fits well without too much extra fabric
- keeps me dry during short immersions
- durability unknown so far.

The full version:
So far, my winter gear for flatwater paddle included a 3 mm wetsuit longjohn, with an long-sleeved thermal underlayer and a Kokatat paddling jacket. It generally worked well but the drysuit always flet a bit restrictive and sweat stayed trapped in the drysuit, which irritated my skin after a while.
I always liked the feel of my Kokatat goretex paddle jacket, very light and warm enough during a an intense paddle, as long as one doesn't capsize. But Kokatat drysuits were a bit rich for my taste.

IN THE STORE:
The paddleskin drysuit seemed a good solution on paper, so I tried it and compared it to the PeakUK explorer and the Palm Fuse drysuits (only in the store, did not paddle in the other drysuits):
- The Peak UK explorer had a lot of extra fabric, and was quite stiff. All the pockets and sprayskirt tunnel were superfluous and added to the bulk of the suit.
- The Palm Fuse was much lighter and the fabric was also less stiff, but the zip across the shoulders was sticking out above my shoulder
- The paddleskin, on the other hand, was by far the lightest of the three, with a feel very similar to my Kokatat paddle jacket. Also, that was the only one where I did not feel hot, just standing in the store.

I am 1.82m and 87 kg, so a bit more wide than tall (to quote my mom: I have the ideal weight for the height I would like to have) and the paddleskin was only available in M and XL sizes. I ended up buying the XL: it was wide enough, but a bit too tall. The L would probably have been ideal, but I can live with the XL: I just added a webbing belt to keep the waist high when walking around. The M was decidedly too small.

FEATURES:
To clear up some questions in the posts above:
- the paddleskin has latex wrist gaskets, latex socks and a neoprene neck gasket. The neck gasket is very comfortable for me, even a bit too loose for water tightness, but I added a small housemade neoprene collar to keep things tight and the seal is now watertight.
- there is a small waist tensioner
- the zip is in the back, about at the level of my lowest rib, and fits under my PDF when paddling.
- there is also a small internal waist pocket on the left side.
- the front of the legs and the back (from the zip to mid-thighs) are reinforced with cordura.
- there is a small neoprene "cushion" under the bum, but you don't feel it and it does not affect stability. I guess it is just a patch of neoprene similar to a wetsuit to isolate the bottom from the cold ski.

ON THE WATER:
I used the paddleskin three times already and am very happy about it.
The weather in Belgium for the moment is near the freezing point (freezing at night, a few degrees above 0C during the day), with water around 5-6 C.
I use thin woolen socks, a thin insulating legging and a thicker insulating top under the paddleskin suit, with 3mm booties above it and thin neoprene gloves. That seems to keep me just cool enough to work out well and is still OK for short immersions. I wouldn't want to stay in the water for long, but that is not an issue where I train (canal).
With this set-up, I stay comfortable and can work out at my normal intensity level. My baselayers stay as good as dry, except where the PDF presses the fabric against my skin.In the regard, the breathability seems comparable to my Kokatat goretex paddling jacket.
The drysuit feels very light and flexible. In fact, I could forget I am wearing it. I feel much more free to move than  with the wetsuit long john. Again here, it feels comparable to the Kokatat goretex jacket, but in full suit.
The suits is also quiet, unlike some other drytops I tried.
I was concerned about the position of the zip under my PDF and possible chafing, but it cannot be felt while paddling.

I did not capsize during the last outings, but intentionally immersed myself up to the armpits at the start and the end of my first session to see how cold I would feel with these light baselayers: I can feel the cold water, but it is certainly OK for a few minutes. I can swim to shore or re-enter the surfski faster than that. So no issue.
Also, the suit kept me 100% dry.

In in all, I am very happy with it. The only unknown so far is concerning the durability.

Tom
The following user(s) said Thank You: Korrigan, DrA5

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1 year 10 months ago #33289 by paddlepop
Replied by paddlepop on topic Surfski Drysuit?
thanks for that great detailed post Tom.  you're one keen paddler!  down here in Oz, i get cranky if i've got to put on a 2/3mm wettie for a month or so

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1 year 8 months ago #33438 by ivolino
Replied by ivolino on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I bought a paddleskin too and I am very happy. I already have a Kokatat Expedition for seakayaking but wanted to have something more flexible for surfski. Compare to the Kokatat the paddleskin feels like nothing. I would not use the paddleskin if I do a kayak trip with camping and rocks but for a little ride on the waves great. I would be just afraid of branches and rocks. The material is much thinner. I feel so much more free in the paddleskin. I have the [font=segoe ui, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]paddleskin since November. I have not tested how waterproof it is. Luckily I had not to take a bath in the cold water since November. Just +3°C in the moment. I have the one with socks. They are a bit too long. I would prefer latex neck. [/font][font=segoe ui, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The only think I am really missing is a relief zipper. [/font]

Paddled Vajda Next 52, Next 46, Epic V10 Sport, Carbonology Boost, Fenn Bluefin. Now Fenn Swordfish S
G´POWER Galaxy II

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1 year 8 months ago #33441 by TomVW
Replied by TomVW on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Glad you also like the paddleskin suit.
It seems there must be several versions of it: mine does have a relief zipper. 
Not that you could tell from their website....
Tom

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1 year 8 months ago #33442 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Something interesting I found along similar lines, if the initial claims hold true, this fabric has the potential to be 3x more breathable than Goretex Pro.

www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-nor...ology-300774532.html

I hope they license it to Kokatat! (or any drysuit maker really). 3x more breathability would reduce the normal drysuit 'sweat bath' to a 'sweat shower' 

Good to see some innovation around waterproof fabrics going again. Seems like there hasnt been a definitive breakthrough since Goretex / ePTFE was discovered in the 60's. 

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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1 month 1 week ago #37364 by Kent
Replied by Kent on topic Surfski Drysuit?
TomVW or anybody else that's been using the Paddleskin suit for a while now - how has it been working out over the long haul?

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1 month 1 week ago #37365 by Kent
Replied by Kent on topic Surfski Drysuit?
TomVW - do you mind sharing how your Paddleskin suit has been working out over the long haul?

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1 month 1 week ago #37367 by TomVW
Replied by TomVW on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Hi Kent,

The paddleskin held up fine to its second winter of continuous use. I must have been wearing for about 40-50 outings between November and March last winter, and about the same amount the year before that.
Besides the fading of the pearling effect on the surface of the arms, the suit still looks and performs as new. No visible wear of the light fabric. The reinforced cordura panels show a bit of dirt I gathered when clambering down the bank of the canal where I do most of my paddling, but that because I never really scrubbed it out.

In terms of care, I simply let it dry and air it out after each paddle. Wipe down the muck if I slide out on the banks and only handwash the suit at the end of the season. I put some talcum powder on the gaskets and store it for summer.

I just went to check it out, and the gaskets are still fine and the suit is ready to go  (hard to believe it will soon be cold enough for a drysuit: we had 34C a few days ago, but it already cooled down to 7C this morning...)

So yeah, very satisfied overall.

If I had to nitpick, I'd say the rubber socks are too large, but then again, I just stuff them in my neoprene surfshoes and forget about it... (I am size 11, BTW). But that's it.

Are you pondering about buying one?

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1 month 1 week ago #37368 by Kent
Replied by Kent on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Thanks for the speedy reply Tom.  I think the paddleskin looks really good on paper, and the early reviews were good, but until your response I hadn’t seen any reports on how the suits have worked out over the longer haul.  I had serious doubts about the material really being stretchy and reasonably durable, as well as waterproof and
reasonably breathable.  I’ve seen that claim turn out to be false quite a bit over the years.  Great to hear you’re still satisfied after 2 winters.   

I am thinking of buying one for my daughter.  We’re on the outskirts of Stockholm and she doesn’t have any good cold-water paddling gear.  The custom option is appealing because she’s tall and her legs are quite long, even for her height.   I’d be very interested to try one myself but have one of Kokatat’s lightweight, flexible Gore Tex drysuits that works fine for me. 

Thanks again for the great info you've provided.  Good paddling to you.

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1 month 1 week ago #37369 by wesley
Replied by wesley on topic Surfski Drysuit?
I am in my drysuit 6 months out of the year. I have been using the Kokatat drysuit or paddling suit. For the last 8 years using the premium material with the neoprene neck and latex gaskets. Before that, I used the ones with latex neck gasket too but they were confining. I have also used the less breathable material paddle/dry suits from them. They last a very long time and their customer service is excellent for replacement. They even took out the zipper of a female suit(on seat vice in front) I bought years ago since it actually fits me better with shorter legs and arms. I am a heavy sweater, so I wish even their top of the line Goretex material would breathe better. The breathability has improved over the years but not where I wish it was. I checked into the paddleskin 2 years ago but worried about the durability and fit since i could not try it on. I also am a fan of the full feet of the Kokatat vice latex. 

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

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1 month 1 week ago #37370 by Selkie
Replied by Selkie on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Over my 40 years of paddling, I have tried every kind of clothing and layering. Much depends on your goals. Ski paddling has grown to spread into cold and seasonal locations. Living in the UK I see most people abandon paddling by the end of September and not reemerge until April/May. I have many of my best paddles offseason, not least because I have it all to myself. I am unusual in that I tour on a ski as well as shorter blast trips. I have tried various drysuits. The issue for many is that they have a fabric outer that hold water when wet. If you are out for more than an hour or two the wind chill can make this kind fabric very cold.

I now wear Reed Chillcheater gear. Lightweight. Very strong, made to measure is available. Their dry gear is smooth on the outside with a comfy micro fleece. The material is stretchy and the most comfortable drysuit I have worn in a ski. I paddle year round in all season and weathers. Their gear rolls up small enough to go in a small dry bag so that I can take it on longer trips in season for when that weather does a flip on me. Nothing better than making sure you are warm and dry for that return trip or late in the day when the temperature drops. 

Surfski Kayak on Facebook
www.facebook.com/groups/395803743862021

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1 month 1 week ago #37386 by Epicpaddler
Replied by Epicpaddler on topic Surfski Drysuit?
What model Reed Chillcheater are you wearing? I've sworn off drysuits because I sweat so much. I love winter paddling as long as there is no ice, but I paddle my surfski much more aggressively than my sea kayak. My dry clothes under my "dry suit" are literally soaked when I take it off. I'm not a fan of bulky neoprene either. Looking for a better solution.

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1 month 1 week ago #37389 by palhermans
Replied by palhermans on topic Surfski Drysuit?
Interesting reads, thanks. I am also curious on the Reed/Chillcheater. The Nelo reseller in Stockholm has a guide where he promotes their stuff and how he combined with wool etc. Magnus, the owner, has lots of experience from paddling in cold water. Swedish only, fine for a Norwegian and hope a translator can assist  shop.kajakspecialisten.se/page/kladguide

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