Changing rudder systems on the V10

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14 years 11 months ago #498 by scott cole
Yo - new to the surf ski world, so go easy on me ...

I am considering purchase of a V10 Sport for use in Multi-sport competitions in Sweden (I'm an American living in Sweden - yeah I met a girl...). So my concern is that in my line of paddling the current "skeg" rudder is going to get ripped off the bottom. This is because (1) multisport races often involve rapids and shallow rivers and (2) Sweden's east coast is very shallow with tons of rocks lurking just below the surface. Since I really want a surfski and I refuse to give up multisport (or my girlfriend's country) I'm forced to consider other options.

Hence my question: Has anybody out there tried to rig a traditional sea kayak type of rudder on the back of a surfski (would be great if you had specific feedback regarding the V10, but any feedback is appreciated). I suppose with the "circle wheel" on the V10, it could be possible to string out the wire a bit longer, drill some holes to insert a rudder, and voila ... But has anybody had experience doing this ? What type of rudder might be rec'd ? Estimated costs ?

My V10 would be a fiberglass layup. And yes, I know I would give up some maneuverability with this type of system

Thanks much,
Scott
Ume?, Sweden

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14 years 11 months ago #499 by robin.mousley
Hey Scott, rest assured that you're not alone in having this requirement.

Lots of skis are used in the Avon Descent race in Australia and they all have flip-up rudder modifications.

I'll ask a couple of guys to respond...

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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  • nell
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14 years 11 months ago #500 by nell
Replied by nell on topic Re: Changing rudder systems on the V10
I've done this conversion with a millenium. There are good inexpensive SA aluminum rudders that have a "V" bracket and are designed to fit on the back of a pointed K1. You could bend the bracket to fit the V10. I drilled two holes in my carbon millenium stern, fit small pvc pipe pieces through the holes so that they stuck out a few mm on each side, then used a marine tex bonding stuff to keep the seal between the pvc pipe and the hull water tight. Then you can bolt the rudder bracket on. When you cinch down the bolts, you are cinching against the pvc and not pinching the hull.

To connect the rudder cables to the new stern rudder, you can just add a length of new cable and crimp the loops. Changing back to the original understern rudder is easy and can be done in about 10 min.

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14 years 11 months ago #501 by robin.mousley
Here are some photos from Ash Nesbit in Australia. He's done multiple Avon Descents in surf skis.

In the accompanying email he said:

Flip up rudder designs

? Extend cables and control tubes from peddles to 250mm (so you enough cable to secure at the rear of the ski/kayak) behind the back of the skis, the Control tube and Cable will need to be secured down also.
? The tail of the ski/kayak needs to have sufficient strength to glue and bolt a flip up rudder onto the back.
? Designs are different you can use a post and swivel design (if using this you will need a wood block or similar mounted into the ski/kayak before it is joined so you can drill into the ski and mount and glue the post in, then design the rudder around the post. As seen in the photos 3 & 4 below.
? The other way is above gluing and bolting directly onto the ski/Kayak, as seen in the photo although cables are not secured on this craft. (photos 1 & 2)

Hope this helps!!??

Please feel free to point anyone in my direction should they have any questions!!

Regards
Ash Nesbit
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.





Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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14 years 11 months ago #502 by NigelWall
Huki sell a kick up rudder system that fits the S1X and S1R, but all it needs is a suitable hole for the pin to fit the back end of any ski. You could get the detailed dimensions from Jude at Huki. They are the most customer oriented company I have ever dealt with (I didn't get paid to say that).

See www.huki.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

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13 years 2 months ago #2972 by scott cole
Hey, it's me again. Thought I might kick-start this old thread again and see what new information might exist out there.

I saw that Epic now sells a kick up rudder
www.epickayaks.com/products/accessories/surfski-kickup-rudder

Has anybody used this ? Any feedback or thoughts ? Not much info given on website about how it connects, what it weighs, etc. Would appreciate any feedback.

appreciate any feedback or thoughts on an improved flip up rudder for use in Class II or III rapids (or shallow bays...)

thanks
scott

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13 years 2 months ago #2974 by onnopaddle
Hey Guys,

We now make a bracket to fit Epics and adapt our p-41 rudder to the boat in a very clean manner.

Info on rudder and quick video here.
www.onnopaddles.com Click on accessories.

aloha,
pog

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13 years 2 months ago #2977 by robin.mousley

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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  • Chaz
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13 years 2 months ago #2979 by Chaz
Replied by Chaz on topic Re:Changing rudder systems on the V10
I have the onno rudder on my epic V 10 sport and it's super slick. Can be used in deep or shallow just by spinning it around in 1 min. Also I made a shaft with top mount for the cables to hook up to so the whole set up takes minutes to go from kick up rudder to understern. Epic makes one but it's 5 times as heavy as onno and same money. My Epic dealer saw mine and sent the factory ones back and bought the onno one for his demo boat. The small bracket get's drilled into the very back and you don't even notice it. Onno's rudder is the same one on Huki's boats. He makes all those too. We race shallow rivers so it's really perfect for it. Chaz

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13 years 2 months ago #2987 by Trilobite
I'd echo Chaz's review on the Onnopaddle P-41 rudder. It's a thing of beauty. Its feathery weight, simple tensioning system, and performance on the water are impressive. It's well suited to surf ski use. I have one for my S1-R (just drops in with a pin), and contemplated grafting one onto my Westside EFT. If you're slamming rocks, the sculpted carbon blade is more fragile than the clunky Smart Track plastic unit, but with a surfski, slamming rocks probably shouldn't be on your preferred activity list anyway. :pinch:

"Nice? It's the only thing," said the Water Rat, solemnly, as he leaned forward for his stroke. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
'The Wind in the Willows'~Kenneth Grahame

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  • Chaz
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13 years 2 months ago #2988 by Chaz
Replied by Chaz on topic Re:Changing rudder systems on the V10
Hey Mark my father in law just got the Huki S1R with onno's P41 also and he's thinking about trying to make a bracket to put it on his Kayak pro nemo sea kayak also because of how crappy the factory one is. All of Onno's products are top notch. Chaz

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13 years 2 months ago #2991 by onnopaddle
Thanks guys ... Not gonna look as pretty pretty but the blade can take the slamming just fine. Go for it !

Aloha,
pog

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13 years 2 months ago #2994 by Trilobite
Chaz,

He's gonna' love that boat (made even better by the option of Pat's rudder for shallows/weedy stuff). Pat, I don't doubt that it's tough enough, but it's waaaay too pretty to subject to the proverbial stoning. ;)

M

"Nice? It's the only thing," said the Water Rat, solemnly, as he leaned forward for his stroke. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
'The Wind in the Willows'~Kenneth Grahame

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13 years 1 month ago #3118 by DenielHop
I am also quite new, other wise you have provided even very smart tips

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