Geriatric Training

8 years 2 weeks ago #18218 by robin.mousley
I'm starting to get in shape again for the summer season and specifically for Cape Point (50km) in December.

I have a generic training program that is being used by a wide range of paddlers... I'm at the upper end of the age range for the group.

The training looks (roughly) like:

Monday: rest day
Tuesday: 5km warm up and 10km time trial
Wednesday: gym - core work for 60min
Thursday: paddling, interval training
Friday: gym - core work for 60min
Saturday: long slow paddle, starting at 2hours and extending over time to 3.5hrs
Sunday: 5km warm up and race 10-15km

Is this insane for a 50yr old? How can I tell if I'm over-training?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18219 by jhstevens3
Replied by jhstevens3 on topic Geriatric Training
How to tell if you are over training?
You will be in pain all the time, you will start taking more and more NSAIDS, that nagging shoulder injury will never seem to feel better. Once permanent tendonitious sets in you will wonder why you ever had the need to push so hard and think maybe you should have used a smaller paddle and stretched more. Don't ask me how I know this (age 55)

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18224 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Geriatric Training
Something that can help to avoid over training is to create a spreadsheet which records your training loads and a subjective comment after the workout or race such as "OK, good, good but enough, great, awesome" or if you are struggling could be "not good, too hard, tired, flat" you get the idea? If you start recording a series of not so positive comments, your enthusiasm for training or racing is waning, you can bet you are in the beginning stages of over training and its time to re assess what you are doing, take a breather and recover and start to rebuild so that enthusiasm is always high. Injury's, sore muscles, tired muscles that are not fully recovered between workouts are also an indication you are over training, all which can be over come with a well structured and sensible program that builds gradually and allows plenty of recovery time.
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8 years 2 weeks ago #18225 by Fuyang Guy
Replied by Fuyang Guy on topic Geriatric Training
Hey Rob,

Not an expert by any stretch, but I think that how insane the program is, has more to do with what training you have done in the past three months than how old you are. Even a 20 year old would burn out on that program off zero base. but if you have kept up a reasonable amount of training since Mauritius you should be able to ease into it.
Remember that periodization is very important, so it may be worth starting a little easier on all the sessions, and build up to those distances over 3 weeks, and then have a lighter week.

Also nutrition and sleep can go a long way to fighting off over-training.

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18226 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Geriatric Training
I save the bulk of the core workouts for the off season along with strength training. A lot of the exercises don't have a direct relation to paddling but just build better strength and keep you in shape for your build up base work. I save my in season training energy for paddling. A few core training exercises can be done during your off water warm up before paddling (everyone does a warm up before hitting the water right)? These will more closely apply to your paddling, for instance, while doing your shoulder warm ups, stand on one leg with your knee up at a right angle, just maintaining your balance will activate your core and develop your stability pathways. Press ups, squats, leg swings, twists, all work your core and stability pathways and can be used as part of your on shore warm up. No need to hit the gym in paddling season in my opinion, do it in the off season.

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18227 by nell
Replied by nell on topic Geriatric Training
"How can I tell if I'm over-training?"

For me, I can tell because I start losing interest and enthusiasm for getting out on the water and my speed and endurance simultaneously drop precipitously. Unfortunately, by that time, it's sort of too late to reverse the process without taking some time off or switching to another sport for awhile.

I've come to think that overtraining with me (probably others, too) has less to do with the physical workload and more to do with my general attitude - which is shaped by my enthusiasm (or lack of) for training along with all the other conscious and subconscious stressors in at that time.

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18236 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Geriatric Training
Awesome response - thanks guys.

@Kayaker Greg - I like the gym sessions partly because they're quick and convenient to do; I take off at lunchtime to the gym 5min down the road. They're partly cardio; partly core. My desire to do it is partly that if I don't get into the gym, I probably won't find time to do any exercise on those days - and I know that if I do pure cardio, I'll get bored of it.

The subjective "how am I feeling" suggestions are great - I'll definitely keep a spreadsheet going and ease off if I start feeling "WTF am I doing this for?" I find a downwind an almost infallible cure for that though!

I'll report back on how I'm doing.

Anyone tempted to come out here for the Cape Town Paddling Festival?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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8 years 2 weeks ago #18239 by Fuyang Guy
Replied by Fuyang Guy on topic Geriatric Training
Hi Rob,

I'm going to be in SA for Christmas, and will get down to CT for the Cape Point Challenge, unfortunately time does not allow me more than 2 days in the mother city

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8 years 1 week ago - 8 years 1 week ago #18240 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Geriatric Training
Just remember that the heart is a muscle that needs rest and recovery too, as does your central nervous system and your mind. In season, when you are racing, doing intervals, paddling 4 x a week with the sort of programme you have out lined, with everything else going on in your life with work, family etc, I think its a good idea that any other exercise you do should be recreational, enjoyable and fun, perhaps a cycle in the sun, a run up the park with the dog, a swim at the beach, something chilled out, rather than trying to rush another couple of work outs during your lunch break at the gym, when do you get a chance for your body to just relax and have fun? During the season you are better to be under done than over trained and racing and intervals are hard on your body.

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8 years 1 week ago #18242 by Ric
Replied by Ric on topic Geriatric Training
Hey, Rob, you know I'm a few yrs from your age ;-)

But just to comment on the overtraining thing, considering we've kept going almost through winter with what was Nikki's training group.

- I totally agree with that subjective opinion on how the sessions felt.
- I agree you start feeling sore all over all the time.
- And yes, the clincher is that lack of enthusiasm to do what you love doing, to paddle.

As winter kicked in, ppl dropped out due to injuries from overtraining stress, and by a month ago, I found myself just not wanting to paddle anymore - it had become a chore. THAT's a damn good sign that it was time to take a month...

See you on the water for the series in a month.

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8 years 1 week ago #18251 by owenw
Replied by owenw on topic Geriatric Training
Hey Rob, I'm almost 20 years older than you and still race all year round, usually on Sunday. I always use the day before my race as my rest day - probably the most important day of the week. On Mon I do a low intensity recovery paddle, Tue high intensity at almost racing pace, Wed the gym for general strength and core, Thu longer distance (about double race distance) and moderate intensity, Friday gym or paddle depending on how I feel or how the weather looks. Probably fitter now than way back when I was 40.

Life truly lived is full of risk; to fence out risk is to fence out life itself
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8 years 1 week ago #18272 by lawsongr
Replied by lawsongr on topic Geriatric Training
Rob, when you get to the point of feeling fatigued and sort you are already over trained. As an exercise physiologist I train mostly professional endurance athletes, finding that fine line of training to the edge of over training is a constant battle. You can get very technical with heart rate variables and all sorts of other data. But a pretty good indicator of over training is your resting heart rate. This will let you know before you experience physiological symptoms, which at that point you are already over trained and require at least 2 weeks of limited training to recover.

Resting heart works as follows. To obtain your base line RHR, for 3 days in a row as you wake up with as little movement as possible (muscle movement will elevate your heart rate)take your pulse at your wrist using your fingers not your thumb, take your pulse for a full minute. Average your heart for the 3 days, that is your resting heart rate. Once a week or more the morning after your easier days check your RHR, if it is 5 to 10 beats above your base line, check it again the next morning if it's still elevated your are starting to over train. Skip the intervals that week and shorten your long paddle and you'll be right on track.

Your program looks good, but I do agree with kayaker greg, keep things fun. Limit your time in the gym during the racing season. As we get older your can still obtain incredible endurance even though your speed and power my go down some, the trick is recovery. Recovery becomes equally as important as training.

hopes this helps

Graham Lawson

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8 years 1 week ago #18278 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Geriatric Training
Thanks Graham!

Sounds like excellent advice... I take my resting HR quite often with my trusty iPhone(!) so I have a good idea of what it should be when I wake up. I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

It's been a hard week - Gym on Tuesday (should have been paddling, but couldn't get there); Gym on Wednesday; Downwind on Thursday; Gym on Friday; 2hr hard paddle (should have been a long slow paddle, but the wind was much stronger than forecast, 1h15 hard grind into the wind, glorious 45min downwind); 6x8min at 80% HR tonight and I'm feeling fairly shattered. Rest day tomorrow.

All good.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 11 months ago #18615 by Mako
Replied by Mako on topic Geriatric Training
So Rob, you've done a few races now, hows the Jerry Hatrick training going?. You beat this one but finished behind the other one :(

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7 years 11 months ago #18616 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Geriatric Training
Haha - I beat the other one consistently downwind... but that doesn't seem to count on race day!

As for the training... I haven't collapsed with injuries (yet) so it's all good so far.

The resting HR is stable (at around 51bpm!) so I'm apparently not overdoing it just yet.

I had a "personal trainer" friend draw me up two sessions of core exercises that are kind of fun to do (walking up the wall is probably my favourite) so I'm not getting bored at gym.

The only blight on the horizon is that the beloved has just had an ankle replacement op so my movements are going to be constrained for a few weeks... The upside is that the op was a success (it was possible that they might have had to immobilise the joint completely) and I'm looking forward to the day when we can go hiking together (well, walking at least).

And as for the racing - well, Dale got a good start and I cocked up the finish... Let's see what happens next week! (And I'll have my Evo II back next week!)

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #18755 by Mako
Replied by Mako on topic Geriatric Training
So........this one beat you last time and you beat the other one!. Get your "personal trainer friend" to substitute the walking up the wall with navigation excercises ;-)
From my side, my training paddles are easy and pretty much limited to twice a week. at least 50% is spent on Nauticats wake in 'spinning mode'. I see it as steadily winding up a spring and releasing it only on race days. Resting HR is 41 (used to be 35/38 when I paddled 8 years ago)

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7 years 10 months ago #18878 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Geriatric Training
Latest update:

Score in the Tuesday night races is now 2-2.

I went 2-1 up tens day ago after a paddle to Vulcan Rock and back on flat water. We both fell off our groups and paddled on our own. There was hardly any movement on the water and neither of us had any advantage (IMO) from the boats.

This Tuesday, the bay was the flattest I've seen it in years. I was ahead to the first mark, but was on the wrong side of the mob and Dale passed me on the inside. He then hooked onto a double's slip while the boat that I was following was the last in the group and the paddler suddenly stopped about 2km into the race, leaving me stranded off the bunch with nowhere to go and too far to put an interval in.

All's fair in love and paddling and I knew that with a secure slip Dale was away, so I used the rest of the paddle as a training run and didn't kill myself (except to drop Johan on the last leg, haha!)

Because of home commitments (the beloved has just had a total ankle replacement, leaving me as a virtual single parent), my training has reduced to three paddles a week and one gym session:

Saturday: long training paddle - at least 25km in the double
Sunday: 10-15km race in the double
Tuesday: 10-12km race in a single
Thu or Friday: core session at gym

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 10 months ago #18880 by Fuyang Guy
Replied by Fuyang Guy on topic Geriatric Training
The onset of winter is seriously denting my training time and motivation, struggling to keep enough going to just maintain fitness between now and Cape Point.

It has really come down to weekend paddling.
This evening got on the water; in neoprene shorts and booties, a Helly Hansen and jacket and a beanie, and it was dark 15 minutes in. Think I might have an idea what the Cape guys train in for the Berg.

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7 years 10 months ago #18882 by Mako
Replied by Mako on topic Geriatric Training
Rob you never dropped me. I had blurred vision, sore arms and shortness of breath! :blink:

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7 years 10 months ago #18884 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Geriatric Training
Oh right, I didn't drop you in the same way that Dale didn't drop me... I just fell further and further behind!

Watch us drop you when we get our V10s! (I hope!)

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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