Advice on training speeds and HRs for newbie

6 years 7 months ago #23454 by sammclean
Hi everyone -

I'm after some advice on training please!

I started paddling pretty recently. I did the Hawkesbury classic on just a few weeks of training, but was pretty slow in 15 hours. Since the new year I've upgraded to a Fenn Elite from the XT and started paddling twice a week. I just got a 310xt and I'm trying to make sense of all the new data.

1 - How much interval training should I do, and what intervals do you all use? I tried just doing 200m sprints and letting my HR recover to 130 then going again. What's the best approach?

2 - Where should I be trying to keep my HR? My max is 186 and I've been averaging about 160 over an hour.

3 - What sort of average speed should I be aiming for? I have read plenty of people on this forum averaging around 10km/h on flat, and the pros do 14ish? I'm at about 9-9.5.

Any other advice would be really appreciated! If it helps, here's a paddle I did today. connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/695631617

Sam







connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/695631617

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6 years 7 months ago #23455 by Newbflat
My take...

Your training too hard. This is an endurance sport so train like an endurance athlete. The best endurance athlete spend the vast majority of ther time training at very moderate heart rates. Intervales are to be done only once your fit, very hard and then not very often.

Use this basic idea
philmaffetone.com/180-formula

It's reinforced by this paper... Long but interesting.
www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
The following user(s) said Thank You: jonny250, sammclean

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6 years 7 months ago #23456 by Teddy_the_grownup
I am focusing on paddling technique and form to get faster. I don't use a heart monitor, but think my heart rate is normally between 120 and 150 bpm. You should add in some stability training. I find working on form and paddling technique in choppy conditions will makes me faster in flat water. For example, I am averaging about 9.6km/ hr in flat water with only 3 months of paddling a surf ski. In 3 months, I expect to be up to be going 12km per hour. Stability training and working on paddling form have made me much faster. Of course rough water can create back problems if you don't stretch. I learned that the hard way. To reduce my injuries, I started doing yoga back exercises/stretches. I expect yoga and extra stretching will help give me a deeper catch and reduce muscle fatigue. Right now, I can only paddle for an hour 15 minutes before my back is tense and tired.

S18S stellar ski since 12/14
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6 years 7 months ago #23457 by owenw
I totally agree with Newbflat and his advice to check out Phil Maffetone's theories. This idea of basically Zone 2 for most of your training is fully supported by the greatest Hawaiian Ironman of all - Mark Allen. I'm an ancient Masters paddler, but this consistent low effort training has allowed me to remain comparatively fit and regularly (successfully) competing in the NSW Marathon Series as well as Club racing (on a Stellar SES).

Life truly lived is full of risk; to fence out risk is to fence out life itself
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6 years 7 months ago #23461 by sammclean
Thanks for the tips!

I checked out those articles, but it does sound like a frustrating way to train -- I identify with the clients mentioned who just didn't feel the same buzz paddling that slow at first. Paddling at 160 I still get off the water feeling like I could paddle for a few more hours. I think I don't really feel the endorphin kick of exercise unless I stay in zone 4/5.

As for stability training, my current approach is just to paddle out through the heads with lots of bounce-back swell and try to stay upright! Is there anything else you guys recommend?

Thanks
S

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6 years 7 months ago #23462 by Newbflat
If you just want to go out and have fun, by all means do so. But if you want to race or keep up with the group on long tempo paddles, you better develop some deep aerobic fitness. Training in the "junk" zones is kind of a wast of energy. I made a lot more progress after i stuck to doing long slows for months than flailing away in the junk zone for the same amount of time.
Training in zone 2 low 3 induces physiological changes in your body... This kind of fitness doesn't show up as clearly on short paddles but when heading into hour two of a race or long tempo paddle with others it makes all the difference.

www.slideshare.net/mobile/clarindabrown/...-to-aerobic-training

Training in the "junk" zone gives you nether the Arabic benefits as quickly or is hard enough to gain strength from interval training. It also allows you to train and not hurt yourself. This is very important to old farts like me.

Doing the proper ground work now will pay dividends later. It most likely will help your back as well by not injuring it while gaining core strength. You also might find that making your goal of 12kph over an hour? Might be a bit further out than 3 months. After the initial big and satisfying
speed jumps when beginning, those 10ths of a kph come slower and slower and with a lot of hard work.

Bill

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
The following user(s) said Thank You: jonny250

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