Remount Question

2 years 6 months ago #29674 by LakeMan
Remount Question was created by LakeMan
As you guys probably heard too many times I paddle a 2nd gen Think Uno Max. According to Wesley it's one of the toughest skis to remount. The bucket is deep and the walls are very thin making it not only difficult but painful to mount. Being 17" wide doesn't help matters. After months of practicing remounting I have decided that the straddle mount works much better for me and it doesn't hurt so much.
My question is, how may of you use the straddle method over the more elegant sidesaddle method? And why do you use it and what type of ski makes this a better choice?

www.surfski.info/getting-started/item/10...lls-the-remount.html

Thanks

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #29675 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic Remount Question
I favour straddle too for the reasons given here (fast, deep narrow bucket)
www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1...y-remount.html#26713

with this leash setup (as short calf leash does not work for me that way)
tcsurfski.com/2013/09/23/surfski-leash/
(with large mountaineering carabiners at both ends (vest, foot strap) to open faster with cold fingers or in emergency)

However, I would now also use it for wider/shallower buckets, as it's so fast and I paddle mainly flat water. See vid posted by paddle fun www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1...y-remount.html#26710 > does not look less elegant to me than sidemount ;-)

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2 years 6 months ago #29678 by downwinda
Replied by downwinda on topic Remount Question
I prefer the straddle method. And I think it's safer too because once you're on the boat straddling it you can paddle it in like that if you have to. If it's too rough, just paddle home with your legs out on either side. Try doing that sidesaddle!

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2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #29681 by LaPerouseBay
Replied by LaPerouseBay on topic Remount Question
Agree 100% that deep buckets are tough to get into. I tried the cowboy style once, didn't like it.

The drill Oscar demonstrates (swinging both legs over the boat, using the paddle) is a great thing to practice. He made me do it during a clinic. Great coach.

I'm not saying the cowboy style is wrong (although Oscar does). I just prefer the side entry. Seems a lot easier to me. When you get the timing right, it's a breeze. But it takes practice.

It's at 1hr, 2 min, 29sec. in the video if it doesn't start there.


downwind dilettante

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2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #29682 by LakeMan
Replied by LakeMan on topic Remount Question
Thanks LPBay, I've watched this entire video 3 times and have watched many other remounting videos online too. Almost 100% say to do the side mount. That's all I've practiced on for months but I had to face the fact it won't work for me. I could easily do it on a beginner or intermediate ski but not mine.

I've made a mental note not to straddle mount in front of Oscar because he always seems to have a paddle in his hands. Wouldn't want to make him mad. :-)

Thanks for the advice.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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2 years 6 months ago #29684 by Cryder
Replied by Cryder on topic Remount Question
I paddle the new V12 (deep bucket similar to Uno Max), and prefer to do side saddle for two reasons.

1. Skis tend to go beam in downwind conditions, and to get back on you MUST be upwind of the ski.

2. I paddle in cold water year round, and cold air and water in the winter (38 to 40º F with sideways rain is common). A remount from the time I fall in to the time I am paddling again takes 5 to 6 seconds... I've tried other methods and can't do much faster than 15 seconds. Every second you spend in the water, and not paddling, greatly diminishes your strength.

With the V12, I modified my reentry technique a tad to deal with a deep bucket. A split second after I lift my head and place one foot in the footwell, I push hard against the footboard, lean way back and simultaneously lift my hips to square the boat under my butt. I then lean way forward to make a strong catch and pull the other foot in as I make my stroke. I might make a video to show how I do it, it looks like one motion but it's really three small sequential steps.

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2 years 6 months ago #29690 by LakeMan
Replied by LakeMan on topic Remount Question
Thanks Cryder. I'd definitely like to see a video of that. I've tried coming up with my own side remount technique but never could come up with one that worked.

I'm glad to see there are others that straddle mount too.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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2 years 6 months ago #29734 by feeny
Replied by feeny on topic Remount Question
I was taught to always point the boat into the wind direction before remounting. And I was also a straddler.

But one tip Oscar gave us was to let the wind catch the boat (not in surf zone, obviously) and turn it on its beam, whilst positioning ourselves on the upwind side.

Then, use the wind and the swell to help with the remount.

So, the next day we were back out on the outer reef in Mauritius, sure enough plopped in and tried exactly this sort of remount and it was one of the smoothest, no fuss remounts I have ever experienced.

I think if I tried this with straddle I'd be plopping in over the other side, especially with the boat moving on its beam with the wind.

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2 years 6 months ago #29736 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic Remount Question
I side saddle simply because it is all I have ever done. I also often have flip flops and stuff shoved under the back bungies that would get in the way of a cowboy remount. I think I tried it once and hurt my testicle.

Oscar and boyan advocate side saddle in part because you can sit sideways in the bucket, with both feet on one side of the boat forever and relax, even in a tippy hull and even in big seas.

I find this works in shallow buckets like the new nelos or the old epics. I simply could not get this to work in the new v12. The geometry of the deep bucket just seemed to make it physically impossible. Maybe others can pull it off in a deep bucket but I can't. Inability to rest in that sideways position would eliminate one of the advantages of side saddle remount.
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2 years 5 months ago #29747 by LaPerouseBay
Replied by LaPerouseBay on topic Remount Question
Thanks for posting that Zach, I thought it was just me.

I tried it once in big seas and it was instant backwards, feet in the air. That deep bucket is great for staying dry though, that's for sure.

downwind dilettante

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2 years 5 months ago #29762 by waterbornewarrior
Replied by waterbornewarrior on topic Remount Question
I paddle a Think UM G2 primarily, and find it easy to remount side saddle. I've never tried a straddle remount with it, so can't comment on that. One technique aspect that hasn't been mentioned is kicking your legs up to the surface. The Alex Matthews video
shows this, but doesn't emphasize it. It's not intuitive, and requires a mental reminder. Once your legs are up it's easy to pull or scoot yourself across the bucket, and then rotate into the seat. Additionally, by tilting the boat towards you, the seat depth and gunnel shape are less of a factor.

Typically when I see people try to remount side saddle, they try to launch themselves up from a vertical position in the water. I've done it when rushed, too. This is difficult. Even if you have the strength and balance to do it, you have to "nail the landing," as momentum can carry you back into the water on the other side. By pulling yourself horizontally across you can finesse your position and limit your momentum.

Don

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2 years 5 months ago #29763 by LakeMan
Replied by LakeMan on topic Remount Question
Thanks for all the advice. When practicing side saddle with Think UM2 I try and get my legs inside asap because I can't sit it sideways, even with the ski tilted as far as possible. My body just doesn't move that way. I do it exactly like the guy in the video but it's painful and I can't get the legs in. Basically, I'm stuck.



I'm not giving up on it but the straddle works well until I can figure out the side mount.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
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2 years 5 months ago - 2 years 5 months ago #29769 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Remount Question
Obvious from posts above that for all who've tried different re-entries there've been varying degrees of success for each method. There ain't no silver bullet, no one size fits all. The obvious variables are strength, bucket depth, boat stability and individuals' flexibility. Less obvious though is kinaesthetic/proprioceptor control. Without getting too wanky about it, this worthy of consideration.

I paddle Stellars - SES, SEI and SR. On a really bad day out there with half a bottle of rum on board and no paddle I reckon I could remount the SR - mightn't stay that way for long without a paddle but point is easily remountable. Mate of mine couple of years ago (hope to Christ he's not reading this) who had been paddling for a couple of years fell out in messy stuff blowing maybe 18-20 knots. Time and time again he got in the boat, flailed and went arse over heels. Was yelling advice at him to no avail but he just kept f*cking up. Another mate and I rafted up and got him going eventually. Took a long time. He was scarred (maybe scared too - another variable!).


Little while back my son 28 - half a dozen paddles under his belt went out in similar choppy rough stuff (my bad I shouldn't have done it) and came out repeatedly. Difference though was he remounted with ease, sat effortlessly in the same boat (high centre of gravity, he's 6'4" but on the lean side) and despite not having the paddle readily at hand once in the boat, just sat it up. Then he'd paddle downwind, get overwhelmed with boat dropping this way and that then come out again etc. He paddles the SES on the river very easily.

Point is some people have better balance and better sense of where their body bits and pieces are. They do it naturally.

However my mate who came out and struggled remounting now belts back into his SR like an Oscar (kinda). He's taught himself what does not come naturally - step by step process where end result is same. (And of course just because son Simon has good balance and proprioceptor control doesn't mean he doesn't fall out - he's a sh*tload of skills to learn to get to that point.)

MY TIP: sidesaddle for shallow-bucket remounts (my SES tippy but bucket not deep): once you've hauled yourself into the bucket (self evident that you need to know where on the boat your arse needs to be to drop in there - practice!), instantly lean back across the boat on a similar angle to legs ie legs 20-30 degrees from let's say LHS boat (windward entry) with upper body leaning back across the boat and say 20-30 degrees from stern RHS. The more you lean back sideways (reasonably) the more you reduce centre of gravity and heels over head flip possibility. Then you're balanced against the elements.

Now Woody in Lakeman's classic image above - he's caught in a deep bucket, f*ckit. However IF the bucket permits, try this.



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2 years 5 months ago #29774 by LaPerouseBay
Replied by LaPerouseBay on topic Remount Question
Here's Oscar with a demo.



I've been working on remounts lately. Fixing old bad habits is not easy.

I can get in and hang both legs on one side, but only in lighter downwind. Next step is grabbing the wing with both hands before swinging a leg over. It will become automatic eventually. It just takes practice.

Here's an old video of me doing things the wrong way, in my first ski.



One good thing about that video is that it shows how to roll a boat. I only get in from the right side of the boat.

I fell out of that boat a lot. It was the gen 1 v-10 sport with the wider bucket (I read there were two versions of that gen 1, but never saw the smaller bucket version).

I'd stay away from that wide bucket model for downwinding. The bucket was wide enough for two people, sharp edges. Very unstable downwind. I moved into the gen 1 v-10 in six months, it was a much better fit. Crazy unstable for a beginner, but I fell out less. Fit is everything in skis when it comes to stablilty downwind. Beware old models for downwind, things have changed a lot. If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a V-8.

downwind dilettante

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2 years 5 months ago #29781 by LakeMan
Replied by LakeMan on topic Remount Question
Watto, loved the stories and the customized Woody pic. I'm sure that's the first time in human history a cowboy doll has ever been used to train on how to remount a surfski.

LPB, I think you did a great job on remounting a rough seas. You should give yourself more credit. There is no way I could have side mounted my ski in that kind of water. Straddle would have been difficult enough.

Thanks for both of your posts.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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2 years 3 weeks ago #30796 by supsherpa
Replied by supsherpa on topic Remount Question
How often do you folks practice remounts? I have started to set time to practice after realizing that my remounts were crap.

I usually paddle the last model of V10Sport but when I tried doing a remount on a buddies older version v10sport I had a really tough time. It took me 3-4 attempts.

Thanks.

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2 years 3 weeks ago #30797 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Remount Question

How often do you folks practice remounts? I have started to set time to practice after realizing that my remounts were crap.


Years ago we had a visitor from Australia who joined us on a downwind. The first time he came out I thought we were in for some trouble, but no, he was back in and on his way again in seconds. He came out once more and pulled the same trick - I was totally impressed.

Afterwards I asked him about it and he said that he was in a training group with Dean Gardiner and that everytime they did intervals, they'd have to dismount, swim to the bottom, grab a handful of sand to prove it and then remount...

As for me - every so often. But I've come off often enough in big conditions, recently enough that I'm confident with my remount ability. I use Oscar's side-saddle method.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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2 years 3 weeks ago #30798 by supsherpa
Replied by supsherpa on topic Remount Question
Thanks Rob. I started doing them during intervals too. I found that jacking my heart rate up first and then practicing remounts was closer race or downwind situations while still remaining safe.

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2 years 3 weeks ago #30825 by feeny
Replied by feeny on topic Remount Question
Having an olympic level remount (I assure you, not voluntary) has been the single most important thing in helping me progress.

I still fall out a ton on downwinds, there's my practice right there. I hope one day to stay in the boat more often and I'll train remounts more formally :-)

That said, the squad here also practices remounts, it's just usually in calm conditions.

Now remounting in 50 knots, that's a thing that's tough to deliberately practice. Who'd be brave enough to throw themselves out voluntarily in that!
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2 years 3 weeks ago #30833 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Remount Question

Now remounting in 50 knots, that's a thing that's tough to deliberately practice


Years ago I swam at the start of a very gentle Miller's Run and I was horrified at how difficult I found the remount in chop with almost no wind.

In contrast, I've found that remounting in very strong wind conditions is actually easier - because the wind holds the boat so steady, as long as you don't try to point the boat downwind. Just let it do its natural thing, which is to go side-on to the wind, and remount from the windward side.

The first time was pretty scary, but now that I've done it a couple of times and know what to expect, remounting in strong winds doesn't worry me.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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