Stellar SR vs SEI vs V10sport

TaffyMick wrote:

Simon Haywood wrote: MikeyRoo,

Having the stability and being able to throw down all the power when you want it is deluxe...On occassions I'll pass much faster skis - The looks you get when they realise they were passed by a big guy paddling a SR - priceless!

Happened to me on Saturday when I reeled in every type of paddle craft (ski, kayak and SUP) on a 2km home stretch into the teeth of major weather change/front, complete with 0.5 to 1m wind chop. The others were struggling... the SR? smashed through it at 110kg and 5'10"

Hey Taffy!

You reeled in the SUPs! Going upwind, in 1m wind chop. Amazing effort, mate.



(Sorry, but I couldn't resist)

Ok, ok... it helped that they were just about being blown backwards!

Hey Taffy Mick, curious about the change of heart about the V10s? Wondering why it didn't work out. Good on you for just moving on and getting a new boat by the way!

JonathanC wrote: Hey Taffy Mick, curious about the change of heart about the V10s? Wondering why it didn't work out. Good on you for just moving on and getting a new boat by the way!

Hi Jonathan,

A couple of years ago a mate of mine (commonly known as The Fat Paddler) told me to try the Stellar SR and forget the rest as it suited us "larger" cross-over (from sea kayaks) paddlers. Not having a Stellar rep in my area the main skis of choice were Fenns and Epics, of which I have had a few of. Indeed I cut my teeth on the Fenn Bluefin.

Over the last eighteen months I have had a Swordy (Carbon) and a V10S (Performance). While I was happy with them I could not get that bit of extra oomph on my rotation and catch. Last Autumn Team Fat Paddler had a get together on Narrabeen Lake in Sydney where the whole Stellar fleet was available for demo. At this event I was able to put the hammer down in a S18S, an SR and and an SEI in some really testing beam chop. Something about the bucket and the swede hull shape worked for me. Secondary stability was awesome, so much so that I was able to paddle all the boats on their edge with water coming over the side without going for a swim. Something that I have never experienced in any other ski. The rest is history as they say... Should have listened to Sean a couple of years ago... would have saved $1,000s

Next ski in the new year will probably be an SEI in the Excel layup. That will complete my quiver.

TaffyMick

Hey TaffyMick,

I'm selling my SEI (Excel) through Gear Trade it is in mint condition - I have small window of opportunity to get a SEI (Ultra) and that would complete my quiver!

It's got the Andersen bailer already fitted.
www.geartrade.com.au/page-27525.html

Hi all - thanks for the input so far, i'm looking for a few pros vs cons on the Stellar Advantage layup vs Excel layup. Some of the questions i have are as follows:

Because i'm a bigger guy, will the 3kg weight saving (by going Excel) be noticeable on the water?
Will it accelerate quicker?
Be stronger?
Crack over time pounding over waves?
Worth the extra $1,000?

Thanks in advance.

Mikeyroo...I'm a C grade paddler and probably bigger than you! - I need all the help I can get.

I've owned two advantage layups in my quiver(sold since) - didn't really like either - too heavy. I've owned mainly Kevlar skis (Excel - Stellar, Ultra - Epic)...I'm now buying full carbon skis gaining only 1 kg but a lot stiffer and they are faster again...Like I said - I need all the help I can get!

You will always be quicker in a lighter ski compared to paddling a heavier one.
So really depends what you're using the ski for - in marathon paddling last year I had a race where I put in a spurt (100m) enough to split a pack from sitting on my wash...gave me a podium finish.
Downwind, the lighter ski will accelerate faster - maybe the difference in getting the skate or not.

Because i'm a bigger guy, will the 3kg weight saving (by going Excel) be noticeable on the water? Yes
Will it accelerate quicker? Yes
Be stronger? as strong - more delicate - requires careful handling.
Crack over time pounding over waves? - not in my experience
Worth the extra $1,000? - IMHO Yes

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Hi Mickyroo, I haven't had an advantage Stellar but I've had two Excel Stellars and they are very tough in this construction, and I really appreciate the drop in weight just carrying them to and from the water after moving to them from a 15kg Epic, you wouldn't think 4kg makes that much difference but I would never buy the heavier construction skis again, makes life so much easier.

I have an advantage SR and a V10 ultra. Everything they said above is true but I have a bit of a different view on the SR. I like my SR, I think it's a solid beginner / intermediate boat and a great rough water boat... But it's not a racer, at least in flat and moderate conditions it's not. It's at the back of the pack in terms of speed compared to other beginner/ intermediate boats. Doing it all over again I would still get an advantage layup. It's much easer to repair and most likely about the same durably as an excel layup. Kevlar is lighter and resists tearing much more than glass but the epoxy cracks and brakes with the same force. I just don't think a few pounds will get me much in that boat other than ease in moving on and off my car. I would keep that $1000 and stash it for a SEI or V10 or what ever you might want to race in the future. Then get the lightest boat you can afford....

All good and valid comments. Having an Advantage and Excel Stellar I do like the robustness of the Advantage in tougher conditions, but also as a general all round boat my SR in the Excel layup suits me to a T. However, it can be a slug in dead flat non-moving water. It needs assistance from the wind, swell or chop to really get going (and at 112kg I need all the assistance I can get!).

If I was in the market for SEI Excel at this moment in time and the boat was available over here in the East Simon, I would be interested. New SEI next year will definitely be in the Excel layup.

Jumped the gun and picked up a new SEI, Excel layup on Saturday. Only two paddles to date.

Very happy with my purchase so far. Spent a bit of time mucking around with the angle of the rudder pedals yesterday from the factory settings it came with. Like my rudder pedals to be tilted several degrees towards the bow whereby I control the rudder pedals with the balls of my feet or big toes. This enables me to lock my heels into the bottom foot plate.

Amazing how these little adjustments assist your stability, rotation, catch and stroke.

Certainly a bit tippier that my SR and reckon stability sits between a V10 and V10S but with the added advantage of being a better fit within the bucket (for me that is). Checking Wesley Echolls tracker stats for the SEI I concur that the SEI is one very fast boat. Naturally I knew it would be faster than the SR, but took Wes' comments with a dose of salt. Now know differently

Anyway, lets see how this pans out over the Summer.

Mick

Hi Mick,
I'll be very interested to hear how you get on as I've also just picked up an Excel SEI..
My other boat is a glass Fenn Bluefin and there is quite a difference in stability.... The bluefin is like a raft and impossible to tip over, however, the SEI is proving a little tricky... only been out on her a couple of times, flat water things will be fine but in the rough I'm going to have some difficulties at first.. Mega fast though (when upright) and easily pickups little swells which the bluefin would never have caught.. Overall extremely happy but I do wonder if I should have played a little safer and got the SR for my ability level...
On the Wesley chart the SEI appears very stable, but I'm guessing at my level small differences makes big changes to stability..whereas Welsey finds everything stable ..
Although I hope after a few more goes in SEI it will become easier, I certainly hope so as everything else about it is great !

Hi Tricky,

Third paddle this afternoon in some really "interesting" conditions, such as a 40kph Nor Easter, thunder, lightning and more importantly a whole raft of wind chop up to 2' in shallow water. This was a deliberate ploy by me as I needed to relearn a few things about paddling a what I term a "high-end" Intermediate ski again.

Lesson 1: Left or right turns with steep, short wind chop driven by 30-40kph winds on the SEI is "Challenging". You forget that a 6.1m x 46cm, 11.5kg ski takes a bit of conscious effort and the use of encouraging phrases like "turn you bastard! turn!!!" All good stuff

Lesson 2: Side saddle remounts in those conditions, with a deeper bucket and thin sides puts a whole new slant on the term "get it up ya" if you get my drift...

Lesson 3: Straddle remounts are the best until you get used to the boat.

Lesson 4: This boat has amazing secondary stability and is very forgiving.

Lesson 5: Fits (me) like a glove and can really get up some serious speed upwind or downwind.

Lesson 6: In relation to 5 above...it flies. Wesley Echols is correct on this.

Lesson 7: Will argue the toss on his graph that the SEI is more stable than a V10S. Having owned a 2 gen V10S... no way. More akin to a V10.

Lesson 8: Brace a whole lot more at times in conditions I experienced late this afternoon.

Lesson 9: Having had a carbon Fenn Swordfish I was pleasantly surprised that the fit of the SEI was so much better and feels much more stable. But that is me and I will admit the Swordfish is a great boat too.

Lesson 10: Having paddled both the SR and SEI at a demo day last Autumn, should have got the SEI then not the SR. In hindsight it was a retrograde step. But...gees the SR is one fun boat.

Hope this helps a little bit mate. One of the reasons I bought the SEI is to be a bit more competitive in races. I think this will fit the bill.

Oh...one other thing, set up your footplate and pedal angle correctly, makes a massive difference to your stability, rotation, catch, stroke, comfort and ultimately your enjoyment.


Cheers,

Mick

PS. Also had a Bluefin. Great beginner boat!

Great stuff there Mick, sounds like you've got to grips with new boat already.. Despite limited paddle time I have similar observations to you .. know what you mean regarding turning, the bluefin with a smaller rudder turns quicker than the SEI with a bigger rudder, I was puzzled by this but what you say makes sense..
I'm finding the primary stability very twitchy which is probably making me think she's more tippy than actually is .. but as you say the secondary stability is impressive and thats the aspect that really saves things and gives me confidence that with more water time I have the right boat (despite some thoughts the SR might have been more suitable)
Yeah I wonder about the Wesley chart placement for stability however with my limited experience I'm in no position to question it.
Maybe the lighter the paddler the more stable things become, hope so as that give me more reason to shed some kgs
Interesting what you say regarding the footplate adjustment.. I didn't realise the angle could be adjusted, I'll mess with it ..
Thanks again for your insights and I'll report back how things go.. Unfortunately over here in the UK is about to go freezing but I'm not going to let that stop me heading out at least once a week...

Hi Tricky,

Simple to adjust. Just make sure your fin/rudder is centred. Undo the cord on both sides of both pedals and adjust. I have mine adjusted forward so that I steer with the balls of my feet or big toes. That way you can push against the bottom footplate without inadvertently changing direction.

I am an ex-pat Welshman. You are a better person than me to paddle in a UK Winter!!!

Cheers,
Mick

Hi Guys,
Just an FYI, the V10Sport on Wesley's chart is the original V10 Sport. He's actually going to be borrowing my wife's V10Sport Ultra Gen2 to paddle and add to the chart at some point (she likes it so much has been tough to get her to part with it! ). Probably over the next 3-4 months depending on our winter weather.

I know Wesley will also be getting the new SR and SES very soon to be reviewing as well. Not sure about any other boats at this time.

Thanks
Chris

Hey Chris - I'll look forward to hearing what Wesley has to say about the new V10 Sport (and any input you want to give as well). I hear lots of good things about it. One guy paddling a new V10 at one of our races thought the new V10S was roughly as fast but notably more stable (he recommended it over the new V10 he was paddling). I keep thinking about picking one up for bigger water. I love my V12 on flat water, but I could use more stability when the waves pick up.

Just took delivery of a new V10 Sport Ultra... an awesome boat. Yet to head out into the ocean, but on flat water at least I've found it to be not that much more unstable than our V8 Ultra. Indeed a complete novice has paddled it without any issue, no swims, and actually preferred it to the V8 comfort wise (more upright seating).

Before picking the Sport we also tried an Evo II.. found it noticeably more tippy than the Sport, and not as comfortable in the bucket.

Unless you're in competitive racing (or enjoy swimming) I reckon you'd be hard pressed to want anything more 'advanced' than the intermediate skis. For recreation/fitness paddling it's perfect...fast enough to put a grin on your face without the extra swimming lessons that come with the elite boats.

Hi Steve,
I paddled Leslie's V10Sport in 2 races this year, one due to big conditions (for us) and other since I was fighting a bug. Absolutely loved it and had good race results for me. I had a V10 Ultra 2G that I sold to get the Sport. For me, the conditions I would paddle the V10 were same as my Huki S1XL (23lb carbon), so sold the V10 and purchased the Sport for my wife. (Huki is faster downwind and in all but very flat conditions...23lbs helps) While both Epics were Ultras, the V10 weighed a couple of pounds more then the Sport. Both had super comfortable buckets and identical narrow catches (compared side by side). Sport was actually slightly narrow at the top, but same at the max width of the catch. For some reason, I actually like paddling the Sport better then the V10 in waves. Flat water, very similar with V10 being faster, but in the bumps and waves the Sport seemed as fast overall and obviously more stable and great fun factor.

I also picked up a V14 ultra this fall that I love. Have only had it out in 2 foot conditions couple of times, and lot of flatter condition paddles, but it is a hoot and love paddling it. Stability wise between my ICF boats (Legacy XXL and Moskito 90) and my Mohican. Feels like an ICF boat with a slower roll. If you weren't used to an ICF boat, may take a while to get used to. (Erik Borgnes summed this up nicely in his review). Unfortunately did have to widen the bucket for my hips, but now fits great.

I would say the 2G Sport would be a great complement to your V12, and fit would be great as well. I could only paddle my V12 with lycra shorts, and had to use the half footplate with heels on bulk head. But in the Sport, bucket width is fine, and have about an inch more on the footplate. Bailer works nice, but have to keep it lubricated with dry spray lube or it gets tough to work.

Stay warm!
Chris

Thanks for the info, Chris (and Sifor)! Sounds like a great boat. I rented a 1G Sport a few years ago while I was vacationing in San Diego, and really enjoyed paddling it. My V12 fits me perfectly, so a complimentary "stable" boat for rougher conditions with a similar cockpit would be ideal.

I would love to try a V14 sometime just for the thrill of it...

Now that the weather is typically sub-freezing, my outrigger gets the most workout. Not only is it obviously more stable, but I can fit in it with my winter paddler paddling boots (which don't fit in the V12 footwell). Lots of fun, and a great cross-workout!

Steve