Stellar SEI speed versus V10 gen 2?

4 years 1 month ago #26794 by portmanm
Back to the question ... Stellar SEI speed versus V10 gen 2?

I'm 48 and 90kgs, 2 years in a Epic V10 G2 Elite layup - 80% ocean 20% flat. Last 10 months, paddle Stellar SEL 2G Excel layup - same conditions. Plus I have a Stellar SEI Excel for the ugly days on the ocean. Epic V10 G2 is faster on the flat than the SEI, however, ugly conditions, SEI will come into it's own & stability/speed will shine through. Since you reside in Canberra and assume you do 80% flat, go the Epic V10 2G - if you want alternatives, try Stellar SEL 2G, Vajda Hawx 46, Fenn Elite S or Think ION.

If you afford it, have 2 ski's to match the conditions. Goodluck.

Matt

Bio
- 90kg, 183cm, paddling 90+% in ocean conditions for 5 years. Prefer downwind.
- Epic V12 1G, V10 1G/2G, V10 Sport, V8 & V8 Pro
- Stellar SEI 1G/2G, SES 1G/2G, SEL 2G, SR 2G & S2E
- Vadja Hawx 43/46/52
- Think Evo II 2G, Ion 1G
- Fenn Elite S, Swordfish S
- Nelo 560M
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4 years 1 month ago #26795 by Aurelius

photofr wrote: I think the numbers listed by Barton are a bit inflated, at least from where I am standing.

Look around in France: you are unlikely to find 10 paddlers who will be able to paddle a V6 at 11.1 km/h over a 10k course. So, when you take the fastest paddlers of France and they do not amount to an "Intermediate level based on Barton", you can perhaps conclude that Barton's numbers aren't scientific (as expressed) and/or French paddlers aren't very fast :)

All jokes aside, those numbers do not add up. I am really close to becoming an Intermediate paddler on a V10L, yet so far from graduating the beginner's level on a V6 (okay, that wasn't a joke, but it was written to make you smile none the less)


I think you're right. An average speed of almost 7 mph in a V6 over 10 km? That doesn't sound believable, and it certainly doesn't match up with Wesley Echols' results in much faster skis than the V6.

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4 years 1 month ago #26801 by Bodsy
Thanks Bill and Ludo for your insights etc and tips which seem right on the money... Bill your experience is spot on for my situation (and have also been taking some of your earlier posts about long slows and Maffetone training etc to heart as well and it seems to be helping). And forked out for a couple of coaching sessions recently too and that was also valuable.

I'm also taking the stability first advice to heart but keen to be in the fastest and most stable (and comfortable) boat I can find and the SEI does seem to have a good balance of the two so will be good to test that when I can arrange a demo paddle. Trying to line one up soon with Stellar's south NSW dealer Andrew Mathers. And looks like there's several other good intermediate boats to try too. And maybe a new intermediate Stellar model in the pipeline reading Wesley's post?? Too many boats too little time and money...

Really appreciate all the good info people are sharing and what a good resource this site is so thanks Rob M for all your efforts with it too!

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4 years 1 month ago #26802 by Bodsy
Thanks Matt - great advice. Unfortunately your guesstimate of flatwater vs ocean is about right but I'm keen to do more saltwater stuff and often paddling solo - I can only justify one ski at the moment so a good level of stability is a priority. But also keen to keep doing the marathon races too so a bit of speed is very desirable! Two skis would be good...

The performance V10 Gen 2 I tried a few times had a weedless small rudder which prob didn't help stability but still felt a bit much for me in any real chop and maybe a little ahead of where I'm at right now... Hoping the SEI is a bit more stable and am trying to line a demo up with Andrew Mathers for the makai race at Burrill lake next weekend so that'll be a good test. At the moment the older v10 sport seems a pretty good match for my experience and needs and it fits me well - I'm gradually getting faster in it but still hoping for something a little quicker...

Hmmm patience grasshopper...

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4 years 1 month ago #26811 by portmanm
See you at Burrill Lake this weekend - you can have a spin in my SEL 2G too. I'll be camping near the lake, silver Nissan Navara with Stellar ski's on top.

Bio
- 90kg, 183cm, paddling 90+% in ocean conditions for 5 years. Prefer downwind.
- Epic V12 1G, V10 1G/2G, V10 Sport, V8 & V8 Pro
- Stellar SEI 1G/2G, SES 1G/2G, SEL 2G, SR 2G & S2E
- Vadja Hawx 43/46/52
- Think Evo II 2G, Ion 1G
- Fenn Elite S, Swordfish S
- Nelo 560M

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4 years 1 month ago #26812 by Ranga
7 mph (11.2 km/hr) is easily done on a V6, with a decent paddler.

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4 years 1 month ago #26813 by Bodsy
Thanks Matt and sounds good, i'll keep an eye out for you and come and say hi!

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #26814 by TaffyMick
Interesting discussion (as always). Been paddling skis for several years now and am 60 years young. Have the pleasure (not) of going down this path on several occasions. A journey which has cost me a lot of money.

After my Fenn Swordfish (too tight a seat for my svelte 112kg) I purchased one of the first 2 gen V10 (performance) in Australia. Overall, a fine boat which handled most conditions effortlessly. Not fast, but when conditions turned to crap it provided an overall sense of stability and control. About three years ago I started to add a bit of flat water marathon racing into the mix. This definitely was not the V10S' environment. Wanting a boat that could do a variety of tasks I ended up buying a Stellar SEI in the Excel layup. This was much more comfortable to paddle. Lighter and therefore more suited for long distance paddling in bays, rivers, harbours, etc. Offshore, it did not inspire the same confidence as the V10S did... for me :)

Anyway, along came the Stellar SR 2 gen with much less volume, a higher front end, narrower seat which had also been moved a couple of inches forward. Result...out with the SEI and in with the SR 2 gen (Excel layup) which to me is the penultimate intermediate surfski, either inshore or offshore and one I have had for nearly two years, which is a record for me!

As with other respondents on these pages, you will very rarely reach a boat's terminal speed unless you have the right amount of training, paddling skill and hours on the ski in all conditions. This goes for whatever you paddle.

Also, I also own and paddle a Vajda K1. But that's another story ;)

Camping at Merry Beach next weekend Matt and will see you at Burrill for the race :)

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1
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4 years 1 month ago #26815 by ShaneS
Your update made me smile and reinforce in my mind that skis are like shoes - its as much about how they fit and feel than anything else. I've went in nearly the opposite direction along the same path. Transitioning from an SR gen2 Excel but found it way to loose in the bucket, but feel completely at home my a Swordfish S due to being really well connected in the tighter seat (I'm 76kg...).

The SR has been a great ski - once I put two inches of padding down each side of the bucket - but even though the Swordfish is narrower it feels more sure footed to me, though less forgiving once you get it up on edge (if waves hay-stack under you, or miss a stroke)

Good to read such a cross-section of input - I guess it can be confusing for a new comer but it also reassuring to hear how others have taken a (expensive) journey through the surf ski ranges to get the right one. I've also started a similar journey through the paddle ranges to find the right blade, in parallel to the stroke development journey - as they say, another story.

Fenn Swordfish S Carbon Hybrid - 2016
Fenn Elite S Carbon - 2016
Stellar SR Excel - 2015
Cobra Expedition - 2013
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4 years 1 month ago #26816 by Bodsy
Thanks Shane - and feel free to share your paddle learnings too! I'm wondering about that a bit myself at the moment too...

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4 years 1 month ago #26817 by TaffyMick
Best analogy regarding the shoes Shane and a 100% correct.

I understand that Fenn have released a wider seat Swordfish. However, with five kayaks and skis in the garage, my wife would not be so understanding if a new Swordfish suddenly appeared...after 39 years of marriage I know my limits.

Now paddles... B) :laugh: :laugh:

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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4 years 1 month ago #26818 by photofr

Ranga wrote: 7 mph (11.2 km/hr) is easily done on a V6, with a decent paddler.


V6, 10 kilometers, average speed of 11.2 km per hour... deemed easy for a decent paddler?
Please define your vision of a "decent paddler".

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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4 years 1 month ago #26819 by Bodsy
Ummm - would that be a paddler who can paddle a V6, 10 kilometers, average speed of 11.2 km per hour :whistle: But it aint me... yet... 50's the new 25...

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4 years 4 weeks ago #26839 by TaffyMick
10km at 11.2kph??? Only way you could sustain that on a V6 would be downwind. Terminal speed of that hull would be pushing 10kph in flat, still water.

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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4 years 4 weeks ago #26840 by Newbflat

TaffyMick wrote: 10km at 11.2kph??? Only way you could sustain that on a V6 would be downwind. Terminal speed of that hull would be pushing 10kph in flat, still water.

Mick


There is no such thing as terminal hull speed. Just an ever increasing resistence curve that is steeper for some boats than others. If you can't paddle the the V6 at 11.2kph it's not the ski's falt. There is no reason why a solid intermediate paddler couldn't paddle a V6 at that speed.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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4 years 4 weeks ago #26842 by Midlifecrisis
It seems to me that the biggest question is just who is an intermediate paddler and is that the same as a decent paddler. I would suggest that it is not an average paddler (the average of all those who paddle skis), but more likely to be someone who trains multiple times a week, with a good skill level who comes in around the middle of a well contested race (maybe 50+ paddlers).

On that basis then maybe an intermediate or decent paddler can move a v6 along at 11.2kph over 10km on flat water.

But there are many more people who paddle skis maybe once a week that never race. They would probably never get to that speed and probably wouldn't care.

The other challenge in testing this theory would be that a decent paddler is unlikely to ever paddle a v6 (no offence to the v6 intended), as they have much sleeker machines.

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4 years 4 weeks ago #26843 by zachhandler
I think midlife crisis hit the nail on the head

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