Nelo scam

4 years 10 months ago #28304 by Davelis
Nelo scam was created by Davelis
Hi, a friend of mine purchase a Nelo 520 in top construction paying almost 4.000 euro for 9.5 kg boat after a while we use a digital scale and the weight was 11.9 kg he contact the distributor and he said that before shipping, Nelo weighted it and it was 10.9 kg. Even if my scale is wrong (although every other boat we measure seems to be right) how can you sell a 10.9 Kg boat for 9.5kg.
Also after session there is always some water inside the ski

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4 years 10 months ago - 4 years 10 months ago #28314 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Nelo scam
Per Ludvic's comment in the Nelo 510 thread: "Weight 20.5 to 22 kilos - yes, there's still a 4% difference, just like composite skis."

So it would seem if it was 10.9kg, that is in the stated range of weight, although at the high end, they give themselves +1.5kg from stated ideal weight (which is actually 7.5% of 20.5).
If it was 11.9kg, that is over their stated specs. Is 1kg noticeable? probably not, but if I paid top dollar for an ultralight boat, I would probably reject the ski and ask for a different one, but if hes padding it in the mean time, i bet the dealer wont go for it.

I think the use of the word "scam" is not warranted and misleading. I bet if he initially rejected acceptance, the dealer could get a new one. Especially if there was still a final payment due. This seems like a little complaining and proactive interaction with the dealer could resolve this situation. Water in a brand new boat is disappointing though.

Currently paddling a Kai Wa'a Vega Flex in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10g1, Stellar SRg1, Fenn XTg1, Swordfish S
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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4 years 10 months ago - 4 years 10 months ago #28315 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic Nelo scam
Nelo lists 11kg for SCS7 construction for a Nelo 520 on their website.

This dealer gives 12kg for SCS 7 for a Nelo 520: www.paddlecal.com/nelosurfski Typo? 11kg?

I also saw dealers' price lists still showing 9.5 kg for SCS7 for the Nelo 520 for 2017. So customers would expect that weight +- from these dealers.

Mclmes, yep, 20.5kg-22kg is not a 4% range

However, if 4% deviation in both directions is said normal in composites, that would lead to 1.04 * 11kg = 11.44 kg as upper weight. If 4% as spread is said normal, than it's 11.22kg for upper weigths.
Whatever ... I'd expect that a manufacturer lists an upper limit on its website, so when Nelo gives 11kg for SCS 7 on their website, it's the weight which they can guarantee, which means this would be the upper limit and most boats would likely be lighter.

The other question is where that 9.5kg number originally came from which the purchaser expected.

9.5kg (price lists, dealer website, customer's expectation from googling other sites?) to 10.9kg (Nelo weighting as per dealer, 11kg given on Nelo website) to 11.9kg (customer weighting):
Moisture pickup during transport? C'mon. Wrong weighting of customer? Possible. Still water in the boat after paddling, then weighting? Possible (via vent, rudder hatch, depending on previous use), but one would realize that when weighting though. I get a small amount of waterin via the vent when I turn the boat upside down on the water for too long (for cleaning bottom at the shore or after numerous remounting trials). A "bad day" at the Nelo factory? Hard to believe.

I do not care about 1kg, when selecting boats, but I can understand the feeling if a boat w.b. 1kg-2.4kg heavier in the top layouts than allegdly "paid for". However, putting the word Nelo and scam together is an oxymoron, imo. Something went wrong somewhere, somehow.

Agree with Mclmes on proactive interaction with the dealer to resolve the issue or diretly contact Nelo.

Else see answers to www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1...html?start=160#28261 ...

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4 years 10 months ago #28316 by Davelis
Replied by Davelis on topic Nelo scam
Although he is very pleased with the ski seeing an old Epic 13 kg version show 12.7kg on scale a Think 16kg version 15.5kg my Fenn 10.5 kg version 10.6kg makes him feel scammed. This Sunday I will weight a 560 11kg version

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4 years 10 months ago #28317 by Ole
Replied by Ole on topic Nelo scam
Weight differences can be very frustrating for a customer, I personally expect that I get what I pay for...maybe the main reason why I started my own surfski business (with partners) a while ago.
Consequently, we only accept a maximum extra weight (from the advertised weight) of 200-300 grams , offer discounts on skis should they exceed the max tolerance and completely reject skis from production which exceed the weight by 500 grams or more of the advertised weight.
I don't see any reason why any production should have larger weight differences (same model/same lay-up), especially if they have many years of experience.

Ozean OSS3 SL, OSS4 SL, OSS1

Previously: Fenn Elite Glide, DD3 Albatross (2x), Vajda Hawx 43, Think Uno Max, Think Evo II, Epic V8, Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 sports
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4 years 10 months ago - 4 years 10 months ago #28318 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic Nelo scam
"I don't see any reason why any production should have larger weight differences (same model/same lay-up), especially if they have many years of experience. "

The reasons for the different measured weights for that boat are not clarified yet, I guess.

I'd expect one would give upper limit weights - which one can guarantee in production - as the advertised weights and not the middle of a bandwith (or as OSS said be flexible on price otherwise, here that is a dealer<>manufacturer thingy from which the customer benefits, hence dealers should weigh the boats, too, which some obviously do).


Where did the 9.5kg, which the customer originally expected, come from?

Nelo gives 11kg on their website for the 520.7. So11kg would be an upper limit, imo.

Dealer says, Nelo gave a weight of 10.9kg for that particular boat.
Dealer did not weigh it himself before selling it, it seems.

Customer says, it weighs 11.9kg and water comes in.

Did the customer order the boat based on a "SCS 7 = 9.5 kg" expectation based on price list or website specs of the dealer?
With a boat then at 11.9kg, if measured correctly, dealer, manufacturer and customer should be proactive to resolve the issue.

However, putting the 9.5kg expectation asside if "unbased" on order and looking at the 11kg that Nelo gives on their website, where does that 1kg difference (10.9 to 11.9 kg) come from? The question of original post.

Production, wrong weighting by either party, water still inside after paddling?
Where does the water come from (entry via vent, leak, pinhole? etc?)


Until that is not clarified, I would not jump onto any band waggon.

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4 years 10 months ago #28319 by Ole
Replied by Ole on topic Nelo scam
I am not referring to Nelo in particular but too all manufacturers/brands including us.

Ozean OSS3 SL, OSS4 SL, OSS1

Previously: Fenn Elite Glide, DD3 Albatross (2x), Vajda Hawx 43, Think Uno Max, Think Evo II, Epic V8, Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 sports
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4 years 10 months ago #28320 by Scode
Replied by Scode on topic Nelo scam
I definitely remember just after the 560 was launched the Nelo website had the weight listed at 9.5kg for the 7 layup.

This next paragraph is from the Performace Paddling review of the 560s from May last year-

Constructions
The "No.4" build (WWR) is a carbon | carbon-kevlar weave outside , foam core. It comes in standard colours and is around the 10kg- 11kg weight range.
The "No.7" build (SCS) is more carbon and nomex core- It is stiffer than the No.4 and lighter, weight range 8 - 9 kg. A heavier paddler (85kg plus) who is very experienced may notice a stiffness difference between the two builds when the boat is pitching, otherwise the stiffness difference cannot be felt. Certainly both builds are very stiff and light. The other difference is that this top of the range build is available in custom colours / designs.
www.performancepaddling.net/nelo_560_2016model.html

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4 years 10 months ago #28321 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic Nelo scam
One thing to consider is the accuracy of the scales being used. In my experience, unless the factory or consumer is using some rather good equipment, scales can be way off. The results from any equipment that measures anything that is not often calibrated or built with precision should be looked at with some skepticism.

I have been guilty of assuming the needle on the bathroom scale, the dial on my tire pump gauge and the speed of my gym treadmill was absolutely correct only to discover them to be off up to 10%.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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4 years 10 months ago #28322 by Davelis
Replied by Davelis on topic Nelo scam
So Nelo have changed the weights on their site and now scs7 is 11 kg was 9.5lg at the time of purchase plus the dealer told him so. It would be weird my scale to show wrong numbers only on Nelo. Check this ad from a Holland store www.kanokoopjes.nl/prod.php?id=8742

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4 years 10 months ago #28325 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Nelo scam
Sounds like the smart and easy thing is to just undo the sale. The boat seems to be going out the door as hot cakes anyway for Nelo

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4 years 10 months ago - 4 years 10 months ago #28327 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic Nelo scam
You might send Arjan an email an ask him about the wight of that demo boat when re-weighted.

There are still some dealers listing 9.5kg weights on their website and pricelist for the 520 ... > see google Nelo 520 9,5 kg

I also would not question the scale itself, if, then way of weighting, else one would double check the scale with known weights.

"So Nelo have changed the weights on their site and now scs7 is 11 kg was 9.5lg at the time of purchase plus the dealer told him so."

With that info, IMO, the purchase s.b. be undone (refund) or price lowered and the leak issue resolved by the dealer, imo a chance for the dealer to prove how proactive he works for his customers (and his reputation). All IMHO, no advice..

You might want to check www.archive.org (waybackmachine) which makes copies of websites at selected dates. Allows you to retrieve websites in the state they were before changes, in case you need to prove your case in case of lightweight-hype-amnesia.

You might also want to check if you really got a SCS7 boat
and not by mistake a WWR4 (as that is listed as 12kg).
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