2nd Gen Stellar SR vs 2nd Gen Epic V10 Sport

More
4 years 11 months ago #29367 by Dasher
I have been trying to get a real world comparison between the 2nd Gen Epic V10 Sport and the 2nd Gen Stellar SR. I know they are both 18.9" wide and the SR is 19' 2" long and the V10 Sport is 20' long. I do multi-sport races on flat water and I am only interested in flat water comparisons. I currently have an Epic V7. I am interested in any comparisons that others have had. Also what kind of speed difference would I see, on flat water, by upgrading from my V7 to either the V10 Sport or the SR? Also which is more stable?
Thanks ahead for any info.

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29372 by MCImes
Though I can't answer, I am also interested in this comparison.

Also, if you have paddled a Stellar SR Gen 1, how much difference is there between the G1/G2 SR's and G1-SR to G2-V10S. Im interested in small wave surfing performance as well, like 0-3' (<1m)

Thanks

Currently paddling a Kai Wa'a Vega Flex in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10g1, Stellar SRg1, Fenn XTg1, Swordfish S
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #29373 by rhainan
I have experienced a speed difference of around .8 kph or .5 mph when going between a V7 and a V10S over a 5k flat water course.

Greg Barton figures his hypothetical "average paddler" would experience a .3 kph improvement in a V10S versus a V7 over 10k.

It is all variable and hard to measure. A strong paddler could drop into a V7 and rock it just as fast as less experienced people in "faster" boats. Also keep in mind the learning curve. It may take more time than you expect to make the "faster" boat actually go faster.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by rhainan.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29374 by Dasher
I live next to a river in northern NY. This is where most of my paddling is. I have tried the V10 Sport 1st gen and felt that within a month or so I would be comfortable in it. I can comfortably cruise at 5.8 mph in my V7. To go 6 mph takes a LOT more energy.
I am an ex bodybuilder that is now 200 lbs of lean muscle. I wonder if my weight, in the V7 is a drawback since the ski already weighs 52 lbs. I am most interested in the speed and stability comparisons between the 2nd Gen SR and the 2nd Gen V10 Sport.

Thanks,

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #29375 by Newbflat
I can add some rambling thoughts here about the two skis. I had the Epic V10 sport (g2) for 2+ years and have had a SR (g2) for about a year. Unfortunately I can't fully address the two's difference in flat water speed as I really only used them if rough water/downwinds and didn't really care much about flatwater speed in this class of ski for me. That said... just by looking at them side by side I would put my money on the V10 sport. It has a longer waterline, is flatter/ less rocker and has a less of a 'full' shaped hull than then SR.

But!... (there is always a but) .... in my limited experience on flat water with a GPS and trying to sort out which was faster it was somewhat inconclusive. My feeling is that the SR is a tiny bit faster... but there were a lot of variables in the 2-3 times I was doing this. In the end it doesn't really matter for my purposes so I didn't bother trying any more. Current where I paddle, fitness, and how I feel that day all can lead to vagueness on a real idea on which ski is faster in the flats when they are so close. In the bumps however, I'm clearly faster in the SR.

The estimated .5 mph speed increases over the V7 seems reasonable but I have never paddled one. I think Greg's estimation of speed difference is too little between the V7 and the Sport at least for me. I have average at best speed in flat water and find something like a .2-3 mph differences between ski 'classes'... i.e. the SR is about .3 mph faster for me than in the S18s (same class a V8) and the SEL about .3 faster than the SR... The V7 being quite heavy and definilty more burdensome than the S18s would almost surly be significantly slower than the S18s.. so .5 sound about right for me.... purely speculative numbers on the V7 though having never paddled one.

Stability wise I find the SR and Sport similar but different. The sport is more stable initially feeling solid and twichless. The SR is looser initially and sits a touch less 'flat' on the water. But .. (there is always a but) the SR has more and deeper secondary, it's progressive and predictable. To me the Sport has less secondary and is somewhat vague and not progressive. After 2+ years in the sport it always felt somwhat iffy in conditions where I was relying on deep secondary. Like surfing aggressively diagonaly in confused steep waves where you really need to keep the power on, or in bad and big reflecting chop. The SR on the other hand is confidence inspiring in those conditions leading to me to being able to put more power down, throw less check braces and focus on paddling aggressively and not my stability edge. I see them as being roughly similar in stability over all but it comes in a different places for each ski. For flat water ether is fine and the Epic might have a slight advantage being more stable in the first few degrees of tilt. In reality though they are both quite stable in the flats and it shouldn't really be a deciding factor.

Fit might be the biggest differences. The buckets are very different. Epics being more rounded and for me quit a bit more comfortable. I suspect without me knowing Epic took a mold off my ass, it's perfect.. the fit, not my ass. But everyone is different so you might fit the SR better.. who knows. The SR's bucket is larger and I needed to add a lot of padding here and there do make it fit me. Seating position for me goes to the SR by a touch. A slightly higher butt or lower heals feels better. Less of that paddling up hill feel.. it's not a big difference though. The stellar footplate assembily is much better than Epics.. it's really solid feeling and doesn't flex or sqeek at all. It also has finer adjustments which I really like. But!... (there is always a but) ... Stellar still has a big cockpit. It's smaller than (g1) boats but it still holds significantly more water than ... well, everyone else's. The new twin bailers are adequate..just, but only if you fill the empty space with foam. In flat water it's not an issue.

The deciding factor might be layup. Epic doesn't offer a "multi sport" layup as far as I know. Stellar and Think both offer a "multi sport" layup for there boats (so look at an Evo III as well, it has similar speed and is also a great ski) with an over the stern rudder mount standard and flush mount bailer options... that's really nice for flatwater. Epic has a flush mount bailer standard.

Really, fit and layup I think might be your two biggest differences between these two skis in practice on flatwater. In the bumps or rougher water things change significantly though. If you are really only paddling in flat water, you might also want to look into a V10 or Stellar SEI.... both are a good bit faster than the Sport and SR and in relation to flat water not that much harder to paddle... I'm talking actual flat water here.

As to the SR (g1) vs. whatever..... the SR (g2) is a better boat in every respect to the first gen. It's essentially a totally different ski in practice and there are no downsides other than a loss of stability, It's not profound but it's there. It surfers better, has a much better bucket, drains better and catches runners much better. It's a super ski for surfing anything but at its best in smaller to medium sized bumps in wind chop as it's short and very maneuverable. I like it much better than my past Sport as it is much more maneuverable on a wave and catches runners significantly easer. It's just more fun to paddle. Stellar moved the seat forward 3" from (g1) and it really made the ski. But!... (there is always a but) .... it really needs a better rudder than what stellar offers. I did not like the ski (downwind) with the stock 8" rudder, at all. I put on a 9" downwind DK rudder onnit and it transformed the ski, no hyperbole. Don't get me started on the state of rudders from all ski manufacturers.... there is not enough room on this page for that rant.

I hope that helps some..l good luck.

Bill

After re reading this I just want to be clear. I don't think there is a stinker ski out there right now. It's all about finding a ski that suits your body and paddling style.
For me Epic doesn't really work for my personal paddling style. The skis don't turn when and where I want and and has a stability profile I have never warmed up to (the new V12 looks sweet though!) . But... (there is always a but)..... My frustration with Epic doesn't stop all sorts of people kicking my ass on a regular basis with there Epics without complaints about stability issues or seeming to have any issues turning their skis. So again, I'm not bashing Epic at all. They have more than enough happy paddlers and for good reasons. It reminds me of white water kayaks... planing hull vs. displacement, speed vs loosens and volume distribution. Everyone likes something different and when everything comes together and you find the right mix it's amazing. But there is your buddy on the same river who has just the opposite mix in his kayak, swears buy it and is killing it. Moral of the story.... try lots of skis yourself and take what every says with a grain of salt. They are all good, it's just finding the right ski fo you. This basic advice would have saved me a lot of money over the years.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Newbflat.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29376 by Cerca Trova
Rod,
Newbflat IMO is spot on in his assessment, including Stellar's 3 point foot brace vs Epics. Since your interested in flat water comparisons only I would recommend the SEI. Initial stability is very similar, though the ultimate stability is slightly better on the SR. I paddle regularly a G2 SR, and G2 SEI in Excel lay up. The glide, and speed is much better than the SR.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29377 by Dasher
Is the seating position higher in the G2 SEI than the V10 Sport? After the kayak portion of the multi-sport races my legs seem to be like mud. Other people don't seem to have this issue like me. I am one of the few using a surfski. After Newbflat mentioned the Epics having a lower seat position I wonder if this could be the issue for the tired legs. I have to lean forward more in my V7 due to a lower seat position. This is like holding a sit up position continuously.

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29378 by Newbflat
I do not think that is a rule with Epic's. I was only referring to the Sport vs. SR. As far as I can tell every boat is different in respect to seat/heal hight. As for your legs, make sure the length is adjusted correctly for you and really work on stretching your hamstrings. Time in the bucket and miles will help strengthen your core and it should be less of an issue. Stretch out those hamstrings though!

Bill

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29379 by wesley
SR 2G is wonderful ski for any conditions with a change of rudders, 4 inch, 8 inch or as Newbflat stated a DK rudder. SR is faster on flat water or downwind with noticeable glide. Ditto too on what Newblat said about secondary. The V10 sport is perhaps the best selling ski ever since it does everything pretty well and has been readily available for folks to try. However, if all those V10 sport paddlers tried the SR 2G, like Newbflat, and many others, they would notice these differences too. The Stellars still are the leaders in quality. Remember the V10 sport is getting some age on its design where as the SR 2G is only a couple of years old. The buckets are vastly different with the Epics being super comfortable for most folks. This is the case for my V12 2G as well. So try both, with your current level of experience, either will be a vast improvement over a V7. Get the the ultra(Epic) or the Excel(Stellar) layup is my suggestion. Lastly SEI is another level up from both the Sport and SR, much faster, but less stable than either.

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29380 by rhainan

wesley wrote: Remember the V10 sport is getting some age on its design where as the SR 2G is only a couple of years old.


Wasn't the V10 Sport 2G introduced in 2013? That's the date of the earliest review of it I can find. Your review of the SR 2G was in 2015.

I believe the original V10 Sport was introduced in 2006.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29381 by MCImes
Wesley, you may have insight to this; why are stellar buckets so freaking big?

My G1 SR bucket is huuuuuuuuuge. I see the G2 is smaller, but not much. Its still significantly larger than anything in the Epic line. It seems to me they could take a LOT of volume out from around the feet and gain 2 things at once; reduced waterlogging of the bucket and a narrower catch (or at least increase the size of the deck cutouts, which has a similar effect).

I love my G1 SR and am scheming to get a G2 in the next year or so, but the bucket size is the only downside I see lingering from G1. Any insight to why they leave the foot area and in front of the foot board so voluminous? Any rumblings of a G3 with a reduced volume foot area in the next couple years?

Cheers,
Marcus

Currently paddling a Kai Wa'a Vega Flex in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10g1, Stellar SRg1, Fenn XTg1, Swordfish S
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 11 months ago #29382 by Dasher
Wesley,

I have looked at your surfski comparison charts and graphs from your 2016 updates. I don't see a 2nd Gen V10 Sport on it. Have you reviewed this ski? Also is the SEI, on your charts and graphs, the 1st or 2nd Gen? I spoke with a Stellar dealer in Burlington, Vermont and he had a customer, that had a V7, skip over the SR and bought a SEI. I have demoed a V10 sport !st gen and felt that within a few weeks I would be comfortable in it. I saw that the SEI on your charts had the same level of stability as the 1st Gen V10 Sport. That is why I was wondering if the SEI on your charts was the 1st or 2nd Gen. I read your review of the SEI 2nd Gen and saw that you said it was more stable than the 1st Gen. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for some guidance. I can;t afford to buy a new ski every 1 to 2 years so I want to buy one that I will be satisfied with for a few years. Any feedback from others would also be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29386 by wesley
Not a good idea to rely on a Kayak Dealer who has limited knowledge of surfskis. My chart is a great guide but you need to demo the skis if possible. You need to ask yourself these questions or think about the following:
1. Fit is key, all skis fit differently, make sure you fit and are comfortable. How much you weigh, leg length, and hips are indicators.
2. What type of water do you train in 85% of time flat water, lake, bay, ocean, river since this determines the "ideal boat" if you only have one ski.
3. What is your goal in buying skis, fitness, touring, racing?
4. What is your price point? lighter is 95% better in skis.
5. What is your currrent skill level?
6. How many times per week will you be paddling?
7. How old are you? balance diminshes with age typically.
8. You must be able to remount it. Some skis are easier than others.
8. DO NOT let your EGO get in the way thinking you are better than you are. More stable ski is better. Many, many newbies buy a ski too tippy for them.

SEI 2G is at the top of the intermediate boats in terms of speed but less stable along with the Nelo 550. A 1st gen V10sport is very diffferent from the other generations. I strongly suggest you go to a local race or dealer and try as many as you can. my email is on my website if you want to contact directly.

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29389 by feeny
I debated long and hard between getting a v10s vs a V8pro.

I paddled both for significant periods and really couldn't pick much between them on the water.

In the end I chose a v8pro in ultra layup for a few reasons:
1) Newer boat/design
2) Side handles (awesome)
3) Slightly improved design for smaller/lighter paddlers vs. v10s

I manage to keep up with most paddlers in this boat and it really is great when things get bigger.

I've only had a few paddles in the SR, but it's really hard to pick between the SR and the V8pro in my opinion.

So, not meaning to add to the confusion (and I agree, this is a good problem to have because htese are all great boats), also consider the v8pro, especially if you are < 80kg !

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29392 by Dasher
I spoke with an Epic dealer (kayaktrader.com), out of Georgia. He also recommended the V8 Pro. I told him that I weigh 195 lbs and he said that the V8 pro would handle it fine. He said that that is what he weighs. He also said that he couldn't tell the difference in speed, on flat water, between the V8 Pro and the2nd Gen V10S. That is more or less what Greg Bartons surfski comparisons said. I like the idea that all the Stellar Surfskis come with the option for a kick up rudder. I know there are kick up rudders that can be installed on the Epic surfskis but I really do not like modifying a brand new ski. I can preorder an Epic with that option on it. I actually like the seat in my V7. From opinions on this forum people seem to like the Epic seats. I tried to arrange a demo on a Stellar SR but could not find any dealer within 3 to 4 hours of my home that had one. I live in Northern NY near the ST. Lawrence river. A couple of the closest dealers didn't even have a surfski on their lot. Does anyone know of a dealer with a Stellar SR that can be demoed, close to where I live? The closest Epic dealer had a 1st Gen V10S that I demoed. I did not like the high hump but I felt that within a few weeks, stability wise, I could be very comfortable in it. So a 2nd Gen V10S should be even better since the stability and speed is better and the hump is lower. After some exchange with Wesley I would really like to try a Stellar SR. But I really don't want to buy a ski without first trying it out. Wesley also said that the 2nd Gen Stellar SR had a lot better glide than the V10S and this means better speed. I still haven't confirmed if he meant the 1st Gen or 2nd Gen V10S. I was not impressed with the speed of the 1st Gen V10S that I demoed. Even though it was lighter than my V7 it still felt sluggish. Has anyone else felt this in the old V10S? It was the Performance layup. Also does anyone have any recommended suggestions for an after market kick up rudder for the Epic surfskis?

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29399 by Dasher
Feeney,

How was the initial stability on the V8 Pro compared to the V10S and the SR? Also how does the seat compare to the SR and V10S?

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29417 by Dasher
Feeney,

How is the stability of the V8 Pro compared to the Stellar SR? Which is more stable?How different is the bucket between the 2.

Thanks,

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29421 by Ranga
Not sure how you can say the V10 Sport felt sluggish compared to the V7, I raced the old one and now the new one, they are very similar to each other in terms of speed.
You cannot come close to the Sport with the V7, the one is a racing ski and the other is a recreational ski, basically the V7 is the only ski I have paddled that I can actually get to the hull speed, I know this because I have tried to sprint in it against much faster paddlers than me and we were all the same speed, could not go faster no matter what we did.
I suspect your stability is not up top the Sport, hence your ability, or lack thereof to paddle it properly. There is no shame in getting a ski you can actually paddle as opposed to try and battle with something you think you can paddle. All you will be doing with an unstable ski is train yourself to stay upright at the detriment to everything else, stroke, speed and most of all the fun of paddling.
I regularly paddle the V8 and race it on the odd occasion, I have never gone slower than 14km/hr in a medium downwind, it is just so much FUN to paddle it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29422 by Dasher
Ranga,

I was not referring the speed of the V10 Sport to the V7. I expected the V10 Sport to accelerate quicker than it did. I have a Kayakpro Jet 51that accelerates very quickly. The V10 Sport does accelerate quicker than my V7 but not as quick as the Jet 51. It might be because the Jet 51 is 17 foot vs the V10 Sport being 20 feet. The other thing I did not like about the 1st Gen V10 Sport was the hump. The hump is too high and impedes leg drive. Just out of curiosity what speed was you able to get the V7 up to? I can cruise in it at 5.8 mph for 3 miles with no issue. But to go 6 mph takes a LOT more effort. I do weigh about 195 and maybe that creates more drag. This is why I am looking for a lighter and faster ski.

Thanks For the feedback,

Rod

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
4 years 10 months ago #29430 by Ranga
I think my top speed was around 8.5 miles/hr can recall exactly, I am the same weight as well. As for the hump I have no problem at all. I will get over 10 miles/hr on the Sport.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics

Protected by R Antispam