Visual boat comparison

4 years 4 weeks ago - 4 years 4 weeks ago #29971 by davgdavg
Replied by davgdavg on topic Visual boat comparison
Watto, if you want to send me the original photos or links to where you got them I can get rid of the backgrounds and get everything facing the same way and forward them on to KiwiDave, assuming he wants them.

KiwiDave, just let me know.

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4 years 4 weeks ago #29972 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Visual boat comparison
On the other side of Oz till midweek KiwiDave will sort when I'm back.

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4 years 4 weeks ago #29973 by Hulk
Replied by Hulk on topic Visual boat comparison
HI KiwiDave,

It would be great when you could add all the Carbonology boats when you have time mate?
I've attached all the photographs of the boats (in PNG) and a text file with the dimensions.

Please let me know if you need me to do anything with them?

Cheers,
Pete

File Attachment:

File Name: Carbonology.zip
File Size:2,184 KB
Attachments:

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4 years 3 weeks ago #29985 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic Visual boat comparison
I like the format where the skis are lined up by the back of the bucket rather than the tail

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Epic V12 g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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4 years 3 weeks ago #29986 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Visual boat comparison
Yup that's the plan man. I'm forwarding all skis I've chopped up individually to KiwiDave and he can add as he chooses to his formatting. Hulk may then add these to a separate searchable web page.

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30014 by Kiwi Dave
Replied by Kiwi Dave on topic Visual boat comparison
Ok, so have made a substantial update and its now in a place where more boats can be added :D

Have just maintained the paddlesports.co.nz name for now so I only have one location to update ... it can live there for now as have no idea what the potential use / future is for this thing. Maybe I make it cater for sea kayaks / sup etc who knows.

Anyhow ... check it out !! Still things to do but its 'almost useful' at least.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hiro, Impala, Scode, Fath2o, grasshopper

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30020 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Visual boat comparison
This is going to be huge, once you start adding various brands it will become very popular. I'll be checking it regularly to watch for see skis being added. I find the rocker profiles are the most interesting aspect.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30022 by Impala
Replied by Impala on topic Visual boat comparison

Ok, so have made a substantial update and its now in a place where more boats can be added :D

Have just maintained the paddlesports.co.nz name for now so I only have one location to update ... it can live there for now as have no idea what the potential use / future is for this thing. Maybe I make it cater for sea kayaks / sup etc who knows.

Anyhow ... check it out !! Still things to do but its 'almost useful' at least.


Great work! Something crucial that should be added to the stats: the location of the longitudinal center of buyoancy (LCB, which is the same as the center of your body mass when sitting in paddling position) along the boat length. It is obvious that some models have their seating position more the center (e.g. Nelo 560 or Epic V11), others more to the aft. The location of the LCB is the most interesting info to obtain from these comparisons IMHO, but ... does anyone have an idea how this LCB position influences ski behaviour?

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30023 by Kiwi Dave
Replied by Kiwi Dave on topic Visual boat comparison
@Hulk: Thanks for the quality Carbonology pics, I have added them all now ... the clear cut png files are a lot nicer to drag around so will have to deal to the Epic once at some point also.

@Impala: Yep, will be adding the ability to align all models on the 'sit bone' cockpit position (by eye, but i think it gets pretty close) at some stage soon. I think thats what you mean ? A bit like the very first static image I posted ?

Feels like I need to get a better domain name for this gadget also ... maybe a poll is in order !!

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4 years 3 weeks ago - 4 years 3 weeks ago #30024 by Impala
Replied by Impala on topic Visual boat comparison
"align all models on the 'sit bone' cockpit position (by eye, but i think it gets pretty close) at some stage soon. I think thats what you mean ?"

Yes ... I once determined my center of gravity in paddling position as about one inch front of the sit bone. Anyway, to determine this properly on a photograph is difficult, so we will have to live with some noise.

To determine the LCB numerically on such a visual basis and put it in relation to total length is then a bit more work, so that's up to you. One should also not forget that total length is not waterline length, as some models have up to 15 cm overhang from bowtip to the start of the waterline. I would consider this too ... :huh:

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30025 by Impala
Replied by Impala on topic Visual boat comparison
Well, I am afraid to be not really clear, so let me elaborate a bit more:

A kajak designer should know the longitudinal center of buoyancy (LCB) of his design. The seat should then be positioned such that the center of gravity (CG) of the paddler is about 3 cm in front of the LCB of the boat to obtain a suitable trim for fast cruising. In ICF K1s you can play with this trim by using adjustable seats, and for sprint you trim the seat forward to prevent squatting of the stern at higher speed. Surfskis do not have this option, so I assume they are rather trimmed at LCB minus 3 cm or so. As most skis tend to get out of the water in front when pushed hard, I guess this is a valid assumption.

But how do you find out the center of gravity of the paddler? I did this by sitting on a plank in paddling position (arms a bit outstretched to the front) and longitudinally moved a wedge under the plank until I was in balance. That happened to be about 1-2 inches behind the gab between my legs, roughly the center of the dam between scrotum and anus (gosh, how to explain this ... :S ).

You could figure out where your dam is positioned on the bucket of your ski, and then you have it.

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30026 by Hulk
Replied by Hulk on topic Visual boat comparison
Hi Dave,

It is looking awesome mate!!
Please check the capacities of the boats as the Carb. Vault is up to 80kg as per the stats I send.. cheers

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30027 by Hulk
Replied by Hulk on topic Visual boat comparison
ps. I will also see if I can get good pics of all the Think skis

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30034 by Kiwi Dave
Replied by Kiwi Dave on topic Visual boat comparison
@Hulk: Cheers, have updated the Vault.

Added all of the Stellar lineup now also ... had a bit of a look around last night for Nelo, Fenn and Think images but will be harder to get large ones it seems. Think's website images are 'ok' but would be nice to have something a bit larger. Maybe will have to take an old school approach and reach out to their respective marketing people.

@Impala: If my brain didn't hurt from leaning web stuff, it does now :D Also I think the word you were looking for is 'gooch' hah

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30035 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Visual boat comparison
Just gave the site a plug on the Canoe Marathon Australia Chat page so might see a spike in traffic. I reckon you'll have brands busting your door down soon to get involved.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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4 years 3 weeks ago - 4 years 3 weeks ago #30036 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Visual boat comparison
Great job chaps. Back from Melbourne so will try again uploading .png files from Fireworks. Having these in .png format should mean each ski image is independently editable as distinct from a flattened jpeg of all skis which is really only one file.

I'll try uploading the original chopped in two. Hey I think we're cooking here! Hulk and KiwiDave let me know if the files useable and if so what other skis to add - important so we don't duplicate the effort.

Failing that try this: www.johnwatsonsite.com/Paddling/Skis/Skis_for_Surfski_info.html
Attachments:

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30039 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Visual boat comparison
To KiwiDave and Hulk: I've reduced file size here for Nordic skis, images are not scaled, stats included for all. The plus + versions are plus in seat width only so haven't doubled up images for each model.
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4 years 3 weeks ago #30041 by Kiwi Dave
Replied by Kiwi Dave on topic Visual boat comparison
@Watto: Nice work thanks !! Will get some of this sorted over the weekend.

@AR_convert: Thanks for the plug :) Will need to get a proper domain sorted before people start to bookmark it and then it moves etc. Open to suggestions ...

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30043 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Visual boat comparison
Surfskicomparison.com available currently $1.00 as domain names promo with Godaddy who I've hosted with for years. Probably end up $20 annually after first year, easy enough to check. Then again there's kiwi-dave.com.

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4 years 3 weeks ago #30044 by Kiwi Dave
Replied by Kiwi Dave on topic Visual boat comparison
Hah nice, I like kiwi-dave.com :P

Wanted to keep it agnostic in case it ends up having sea kayaks or some such on it but then I guess I could also point some additional domains at it say. There is a .boats TLD coming some time soon apparently which would be a bit of fun.

Might register something on the weekend ... I'll put a few hours aside to navigate the GoDaddy portal assuming its as bad as their SSL portal used to be :D

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