Epic V10 Sport or Custom Kayaks Synergy

10 years 10 months ago #4195 by bajax
I can get either of these ski,s, moving from river canoeing. Which ski has the best mix of stability and speed? ple B) ase help

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10 years 10 months ago #4196 by AndrewN
V10 Sport was designed from the ground up to be as fast as a stable boat can be. Synergy is a different class of boat - a bit longer and faster - not sure about stability apparently very good.

Where are you based and what did you paddle in rivers? If a narrow K1 you can look V10 or Epic Elite as all skis are more stable than top end K1s.

Cheers

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10 years 10 months ago #4197 by Dicko
The synergy is a strange beast. Not that fast in the flat, less stable than a sport and more difficult to remount. Downwind the synergy is good. As an allound boat the sport is better and has better resale. I paddle with a mate who moved from a synergy to a stellar and the difference in speed was significant.
A performance sport would be a good option but even a second hand one will cost more than a synergy.
Other options are the think evo or a stellar elite. Don't try anything tippier yet cos you just won't be as fast unless it's dead flat.

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10 years 10 months ago - 10 years 10 months ago #4198 by pilbaralad
Replied by pilbaralad on topic Re:Epic V10 Sport or Custom Kayaks Synergy
The timing of your question is spot on.

I went paddling this morning with the Mandurah Dome Cafe group (about a dozen paddlers or more that meet at Dome Cafe on the terrace and paddle around 10km or so).

I have been paddling a V10 Sport for the last 12 months and had it for sale as I was ready for a faster boat.

I always take the opportunity to paddle others boats when possible and had been interested in the synergy amongst other boats. So I got the chance to paddle the Synergy (Hybrid). It was much more unstable than the Sport without a discernable speed difference (maybe because I couldnt put my foot down).

I also paddled the V10L and was amazed at how stable it was for the narrower hull, I could paddle this very easily and felt quicker than the sport, a much better step up from the sport.

A Spirit PRS paddler bought my Sport this morning after paddling it.

I am paddling a Mako 6 carbon thats on geartrade website tomorrow and depending on how that goes may go on to paddle a Think Uno and the Red7 thats also on there.

You cant go past the V10 sport or Fenn XT for entry level boats, I havent tried the Think Evo but from what I read a similar speed/stability set-up. Have fun deciding!

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10 years 10 months ago #4199 by Guy.S
I will be interested to read paddlers' views: I paddle a Synergy and am very happy with it. It is very stable (comparable to a Fenn XT I think) and good in upwind or downwind conditions. However Big Oscar keeps twisting my arm to try an Epic Sport - but I would only see benefit if the Sport was significantly faster than the Synergy - which seems unlikely?

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10 years 10 months ago #4201 by bart
I have a Synergy (Fibreglass model) and paddle often with a friend in a V10 sport (with whom I have been paddling for some time) and we are sure that the Synergy is not too fast on the flat - not much faster than an XT. Downwind it is great fun. But for the added instability (an no real increased speed) and more difficult remount, I would say that a V10 sport may be a better buy than a Synergy. But this is my opinion, as an intermediate paddler.

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10 years 10 months ago #4202 by pilbaralad
Replied by pilbaralad on topic Re:Epic V10 Sport or Custom Kayaks Synergy
Guy.S wrote:

It is very stable (comparable to a Fenn XT I think) I would only see benefit if the Sport was significantly faster than the Synergy - which seems unlikely?


I have paddled the Fenn XT with the same group of paddlers and would put in on par with the Sport for stability and the sport MAY be marginally quicker. Although the speed may be my peception after getting off the sport which I am more familiar with.

Unless they have changed the Synergy Hybrid and I paddled an older one there is a marked difference in stability between it and the Sport/XT.

From my paddle on the synergy I would say that it would be faster (provided the paddler had the balance to put 100% into thier stroke)

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10 years 9 months ago #4239 by cvh
Hey guys. Not sure about those comments about the speed of the Synergy. I know of at least 2 guys that made A grade in the Durban Winter Series paddling a Synergy, so the speed must be there. And going downwind, it flies - ask Barry Lewin after the last Mauritius World Cup!

As always, you need the stability to generate speed, so rather go for something you are comfortable in rather than bracing every second stroke.

Whatever you choose, have fun and get out there!

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10 years 9 months ago #4332 by oarmaster
I have some input since I have had both boats. I recently purchased a used Sport four days ago and sold my synergy about a month ago. I guess I need more stability in my life. I can't speak to speed for sure at this point but I feel the Synergy probubly has the edge. The bucket in the Synergy is superior for my particular body type. My Sport with the old cockpit rubs my tail bone raw. I'm in the proccess of making modifications with foam pads. Remount on the Sport is easier. The Synergy is built quite well but a bit heavy. The Synergy is not as stable as any of the 19" boats but is more stable than any 17" boat. I compared the Sport to an XT and although the XT felt a bit more initial stability I decided on the Sport which is probubly faster and a better down wind boat because of the rudder location. I also had an Evo and thought the Sport has superior secondary stability. I really wanted to try a Custom Kayaks Horizon but cannot affort a new boat. I think Custom Kayaks build a good boat. But for now my new to me Sport is great.

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10 years 8 months ago #4452 by Nicho03
Having had a Custom Kayaks Synergy Hybrid and a friend owning an Epic V10 Sport I can not in all honesty say there is the slightest doubt that you would be better off with a V10 Sport. It is a much faster craft and for those that have a little swim every now and again the V10 is much, much easier to remount. In racing terms probably 50-100 metres slower. I can't comment on the durability of the V10 but I can for the Custom Kayak Synergy and that is pretty flimsy. A wave of approximately 1.5 metres (face) landed on my ski when I was paddling (approx 300m from shore)and managed to totally demolish my ski. The seams popped from cockpit to bow and from cockpit to stern on the other side, following which the ski was torn in half. The single rib (foam with multiple lightening holes)that stiffens the ski from bow to tail looked as if it had exploded with not one part of it surviving. Manufacturer felt as the ski is second hand and a year and a half old, this is presumably to be expected. Durability???

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10 years 8 months ago #4457 by cvh
Hey Nicho I think I've lost count - what is that - 5 posts about the same thing?

I've had 2 Synergy Hybrid's. The first one I managed to plug into a sandbank on the way in through some serious surf. The ski was badly damaged, but not one section of the seam split, which I find pretty remarkable considering how it was churned in the surf. It was repaired, but I decided to get another one.

I've had the odd accident with my current one (now 1.5 years old). I took on a breaking wave, hoping I could punch through it, but my timing was a little off. I was hit with such force that my heart-rate monitor strapped popped off, even though I was wearing a life-jacket which should have absorbed some of the impact. I had a wall of water dumped on my lap, and the only damage to the ski was a 5cm crack behind the seat. In my mind, it should have been in 2 pieces. The face of that wave was considerably bigger than 1.5m, and it was properly hollow.

I'm not sure what happened to your ski, but weighing in at 100kgs, paddling a semi-light weight boat and having the additional weight and force of a wave break on your lap doesn't sound like a good combo.

It is a [email protected]!# feeling having a ski break, but that's unfortunately the brutal nature of the sport, and you can damage a ski in the most timid of conditions.

If anything, the skis from CK are probably over engineered to deal with the Durban surf, and I would place good money on there being a lot of paddlers who could attest to how durable their products are. Just take a look at how many Mark 1's are still around.

Just btw, I'm not sponsored by Custom Kayaks, but the quality of their products, the price and service I receive from them, will keep me loyal to the brand.

Regards
Craig

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10 years 8 months ago #4459 by Nicho03
Just a correction to my original post. I am mistaken about the ski my friend paddles. It is indeed a V10, but not the Sport. His is the racing version with red stripe. There will therefore be a difference in speed between them. I stand by the fact that the Synergy is a more difficult ski to remount. Having not remounted a V10 Sport I am unable to comment further. Since posting this reply to the thread I have been contacted by the manufacturer of the Synergy who states that he has been misquoted and did not infer that 1.5 yrs was acceptable at any time. Some of his companies skis have been in competition for more than 10 years and this is an isolated incident. He also stated that he is very busy at the moment with business and racing commitments and I had not given he enough time to look into the whole matter of my ski breakage.

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #4464 by superted

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10 years 8 months ago #4465 by Trilobite
Hmm. Have paddled a V10 Sport Ultra a number of times and currently own a Huki S1-R and a Synergy Lite. Comparing the Epic and the Synergy, I'd give the overall nod to the Sport in stability and probably paddling position. It's close though. The Sport is not as stable as my R, either. That said, on a downwind, the Synergy literally flies-it lifts off on the slightest swell and just goes, and the stainless cable steering setup has none of the mushiness of Spectra/Vectra cable boats.

The Synergy is an interesting boat in that it feels like it needs to get up over a certain speed (6.5 mph or thereabouts) before it hits its stride. Overall, I'd say the Synergy is faster-the Sport (and my R) hit a wall and the Synergy definitely has glide beyond that. I've also owned a Legend and two V10Ls, and purely on the flat, I'd say the Synergy is closest to the speed of the Legend. The V10L feels (and likely is) a bit faster, but in confused chop, I'll take the Synergy. It has crazy secondary stability, similar to the Sport in this way. If the wind is at your back, prepare for a whole lot of fun-it rips in a following sea.

The higher side rails of the Synergy make it more difficult for me to remount than the Epics. If you're comfortable remounting in a Mako 6/Elite, it's probably on a par with these. As far as build quality, I'd agree that the CC boats are a bit heavier, but also designed that way to withstand the rigors of SA surf. Had a Mark 1 way back that was bombproof. Could be that yours had a flaw in manufacturing, the conditions were just right/wrong for the unfortunate to occur, or maybe the seams were prestressed (popped) from cinching down with straps? Have seen this happen on some boats where you can just make out a hairline crack on the seam line- 'v' style carriers are so much easier on our skis. Sorry this happened to you.

Will be posting a review shortly on www.surfskiracing.com . Keep in mind that we generally see much smaller conditions in the east coast of the U.S. than Rob encountered when he tested the Synergy when it debuted. Looks like he had a good time. ;)

"Nice? It's the only thing," said the Water Rat, solemnly, as he leaned forward for his stroke. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
'The Wind in the Willows'~Kenneth Grahame

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