Carbonology Sport "Vault" a midpackers review

9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #6629 by AR_convert
Okay, this is the last time I'll jump on the soapbox concerning this boat ;)

Please forgive me if you think any of this is bragging :blush: , it is simply an illustration of how I went with this boat with very little training and fitness.

I competed in the 14km downwind Mandurah Duel race on the weekend and have had some time to reflect on my results.

To put things in perspective as mentioned previously I have had 3 months away from paddling due to selling my previous boat while recovering from an operation to repair a dislocated clavicle.

I had a plate removed from my shoulder about 6 weeks ago, had about two weeks to allow it to settle down then was cleared to return to full training.

I got the Vault shortly after so have had about a month of training in it.

I titled this reveiw a midpacker review when I paddled the Vault having had midpacker results previously.

So when I competed on Sunday I wasnt expecting big things...

The conditions were excellent, about a 20 knot southerly blew down the SW course, with a 2 metre SW swell. The start was sheltered by a rock wall but within 30 metres the paddlers were out into the swell and away.

The course was about 12km of downwind and 500m of calmer cross chop waters before turning into 1.5km in the estuary against the outgoing tide to the finish.

Once out in the thick of the downwind it was apparent that downwind ability counts for a lot of boat speed in the not so elite level of paddlers, as the race went on I found myself in close proximity to a V12 Elite, Fenn XT, Think Uno and V10 Ultra.

We were all moving forward and back with runs but staying fairly close. When we turned out of the swells into the last few km's I was expecting to fall away from the likes of the Epics and the Think and set my goal to at least beat the Fenn XT...well I caught and passed them all home against the outgoing tide :P

Again in the midpacker zone there a lot more variables than the boat you are paddling but it was nice to beat some more fancied boats home in what is considered an intermediate ski.

I finished 7th of the 19 boats in the mens 40+ ski's and 27th of the 78 starters in the Ocean course (including doubles etc).

So for an intermediate ski in the hands of an unfit midpacker ;) the Vault holds more than it's own B)

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 7 months ago #6630 by [email protected]
Its not about the ski. Its about the paddler.

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9 years 7 months ago #6632 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:Carbonology Sport
Fair call, hence my disclaimer below.... Perhaps I should have posted this under my thread on my shoulder injury as a return to form piece. ;) AR_convert wrote:


Again in the midpacker zone there a lot more variables than the boat you are paddling but it was nice to beat some more fancied boats home in what is considered an intermediate ski.


I'm pretty sure most readers would interpret my 'hype' B) in this manner, I may just be a bit overexcited at how quick I was able to find form again....

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 6 months ago #6762 by kiwial
my 2cents
I hade the good fortune to paddle the vault and evo2 in varying conditions, both I felt were stable although the evo rocked around under me at first, both boats got to 12kph rather easy in the flat, with a head wind and tide with a side/cross chop the I was able to get the Vault going 1kph fatser than the Evo, in the flat though the Evo was 1.2kph faster although it definately took longer to get to top speed. Down wind, not too much differnce in ease of surfing, more a difference of character. The shorter Vault surfed better when it was being driven quite actively on the wave and the quick accelleration helped keep you on a run, whereas the Evo was more a set your line and paddle when necessary to stay on the run. Downwind speed was the same. I think that the Vault would have the advantage in short sharp chop style downwinds and the Evo the bigger cleaner longer swells. THe bigger longer Evo was more affected by windage. At the end of the day there wasn't much in it, so if you are looking at these boats then which ever feels right will be the better choice for you.
me;
186cm tall
74kg
Current Ski;
Uno Max

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9 years 6 months ago #6763 by MhojoNZ
Out of curisoity - which layup vault was this - glass or glass/carbon?

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9 years 6 months ago #6771 by MhojoNZ
Have now done my own flat-water 500m sprint trial.
Stellar SES Excel (11.5kg) vs Vault Glass (13.1kg).
The Stellar has less rocker and more "run" so expected it to be faster. The Vault felt like I was working harder.

However the results speak for themselves:
Stellar SES: 2:13 = 13.5km/h average. Max speed 15.1km/h
Vault: 2:14 = 13.4km/h average. Max speed 15.7km/h

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9 years 6 months ago #6772 by AR_convert
Thanks for that insight! I seriously considered the SES before getting the Vault.

Did you find the Vault has less directional stability? Maybe thats why it felt like hard work :huh:

I have... Especially when trying to draft another ski, I have to be constantly on the rudder pedals to keep it on the stern of the boat in front, the length of the V10L hull made it so much more directionally stable.

Still hasn't stopped me loving the vault for everything else it does so well ;)

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 6 months ago #6775 by Rightarmbad
If you are following somebody, always paddle on the opposite side to them and it is much easier, the movement of the nose of your boat will track the movement of there rear.
(Just in case you haven't found this already and for those who never knew)

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 6 months ago #6776 by MhojoNZ
The Vault has more nose and tail rocker than the SES, and of course is 25cm shorter. In theory that will increase the manoeuvrability and reduce directional stability, and in practice that seems to be the case. In sprint kayaks a boat with more rocker "gets out of the hole" quicker but also decelerates faster and therefore requires more effort to paddle at speed. A boat with "more run" requires less effort over a longer distance as you are not having to accelerate the kayak with each stroke.

I am newish to surfski paddling but the ability to accelerate and change direction quickly seems an advantage in downwind paddling in the sort of conditions I paddle (wind-generated swell and chop). Longer skis with more directional stability may be better in longer period ocean-generated swell.

Neither is right or wrong, it just comes down to personal preference and the type of conditions you are paddling in.

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9 years 6 months ago #6777 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:Carbonology Sport
Rightarmbad wrote:

If you are following somebody, always paddle on the opposite side to them and it is much easier, the movement of the nose of your boat will track the movement of there rear.
(Just in case you haven't found this already and for those who never knew)


No hadn't heard this, thx, makes a lot of sense!

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 6 months ago #6778 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:Carbonology Sport
MhojoNZ wrote:


Neither is right or wrong, it just comes down to personal preference and the type of conditions you are paddling in.


Thanks for bringing your experience to bare here, your comments have illicited some aha! Moments at this end. I suspected my V10L was better on the big long swells that we occasionally ride off our coast, but the swell in this part of the world is usually a messier wind driven swell. I have found the Vault easier and more stable to accelerate onto the swells and once on have been able to change direction much easier. This boat has truly given me the confidence to race downwind when before I was just surviving it :huh:

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 6 months ago #6790 by kiwial
Hybrid (carbon/glass)

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9 years 5 months ago #7009 by AR_convert
One of the guys that paddles down our way has ordered a Vault in a downriver racer spec or "Multisport".

Carbonology already did this to the Atom but it seems someone asked the question about doing the same thing with the Vault and Carbonology answered yeah, we can build that.

I intend on doing another review on this incarnation of the boat when they arrive here in Western Australia.

The local distributor tells me he has sold 3 of the 5 he has coming from the factory.

I understand that the people ordering them intend on using them in the Avon Descent, a 2 day white water race held in August. I was going to do a review of the Atom Multisport during the race last year, but the river level last year prevented the boat from being raced. (bone dry with a few pools along the way)

I may do a first impressions review of the boat and build then try to get along to the Avon weekend (I'm not competing) and catch up with some of the paddlers and see how they go with them.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #7767 by AR_convert
Due to other commitments I didnt get to the Avon desent as planned this year but I heard that the two Vaults raced did well. There is a short race report on the carbonology site I've reproduced below in the interest of saving people looking for info on the ski having to search around.

I am still hoping to get hold of the Multisport Vault when I finish Uni this year and do a review for an Adventure Racing website I frequent.

Hopefully someone will get hold of their new "Zest" beginner ski and do a reveiw for us too!

One thing I've noticed with the latest batch of ski's is that they have fitted bungies to the rear deck, something I missed from my V10L, to stow my PFD on fine days, I wonder if I ask nicely will they retrofit some for me ;)

Avon Descent Race Report

I have just completed an Avon Descent in a Carbonology Vault with a made to order Avon lay-up. I was very happy with the results. I found the boat to be extremely comfortable over the 9 and a half hours it took me to complete the race over the two days. The trailing rudder steered well, the Vault was fast, light (14kg), stable and extremely tough. The venturi worked well, which is not an easy thing to accomplish in an Avon boat where it is constantly being hit by rocks and obstacles.

Two days after the Avon, I switched to the surf rudder and was catching waves at my local beach in Mandurah. It is nice to know that I have a ski that can handle almost anything, either in the ocean or on the river. The Vault suits a paddler like myself, who does not have the confidence to paddle a K1, but still wants to be competitive.

Having completed this years Avon, I would have no hesitation in taking on any of the rapids next year, rather than portaging over a couple as I did this time.

Thanks go to Gary Butlion and Kevin White for all of their help organising the Vault leading up to the race this year.

Mark Hardie


(photo's thanks to Steve Floyd)





Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: ts-d

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9 years 1 month ago #7773 by Rightarmbad
Speaking of adventure races.
Anaconda is on here the coming weekend.

Apparently there are huge seas predicted.

Places to be will be at the alley on the way out, and better still, Talli river entrance as the show goes on the way back in....

I may just have to take a little iphone footage to post up....

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 1 month ago #7775 by AR_convert

Rightarmbad wrote: Anaconda is on here the coming weekend.

Apparently there are huge seas predicted.


I may just have to take a little iphone footage to post up....


That would be cool, there was some good youtube video floating around from the ski finish a couple of years ago that showed many being chewed up and spat out in the shore break

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 1 month ago #7776 by heinvr
Malcolm from Carbonology Australia informed me that there is an Atom and a Vault in this years Anaconda so we are holding thumbs here back at the factory. Good luck to all the guys, sounds like an awesome event!!

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9 years 1 month ago #7803 by ts-d
what a newspaper/magazine is that:



seakayaks (Francesconi Esplora, Lettman Polar, Valley Nordkapp Jubilee), Stellar SR
Attachments:

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9 years 1 month ago #7806 by rubberDuck
The following user(s) said Thank You: ts-d

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9 years 1 month ago #7807 by ts-d
Thank you very much !!

seakayaks (Francesconi Esplora, Lettman Polar, Valley Nordkapp Jubilee), Stellar SR

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