Wing Paddle questions

8 years 3 months ago #12169 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Re: Wing Paddle questions

Wally wrote: Hi Guys,

Do youselves a favor, stop guessing and get the DVD from Epic done by Greg Barton on the forward stroke. Here is the link to buy one: www.epickayaks.com/products/accessories/...k-forward-stroke-dvd


We are digressing here - the OP had a questions about differences b/w several wing paddles, not forward stroke technique. Where these videos are good in themselves, they offer very little information on the subject about different wing paddles...

I will, however watch them (I got the Epic video, will re-watch it and watch Greg S.'s linked videos but keeping in mind Imre's writings about the power circles and the interaction of the boat with the water and body swing, etc.).

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8 years 3 months ago #12170 by kayakchampeen
Nice plug for Epic, Kocho. And what makes you so certain that what RAB, or anyone else is saying is guesswork? Most of what he has to say is actually very accurate. Greg Barton is not some kind of savant that has access to information that noone else has..he arrived at his forward stroke concepts by intuition, trial and error, and analysis, just like many others, (for instance Brent Reitz) I've raced against Greg and been coached (in the flesh) by Imre Kemescey and while they both have unique approaches it's safe to say noone has the final answer on stroke technique. Do me a favor, and save the idol worship for justin beiber. Watch the most recent Sprint world cup where Rene Poulsen nips Adam Van Kouverden at the line. Their strokes are so different it is ridiculous. Almost difficult to believe they could both be so successful. Just because others are inquisitive enough to want to arrive at their own conclusions and not just take at face value what they are being told, or what is considered axiomatic, is no reason to be sanctimonious. You may want to do yourself a favor and think outside of the box a bit more.

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8 years 3 months ago #12171 by kayakchampeen
sorry, it would appear my comments should have been directed at Wally, not Kocho. Lastly, I agree that this thread should just be terminated and a new one begun with stroke technique questions, as it no longer pertains to the OP

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8 years 3 months ago #12172 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Re: Wing Paddle questions

kayakchampeen wrote: Nice plug for Epic, Kocho. And what makes you so certain that what RAB, or anyone else is saying is guesswork? Most of what he has to say is actually very accurate. ... You may want to do yourself a favor and think outside of the box a bit more.


Not sure I follow, if this was addressed to me... Did I say something about guess work or idolizing? (probably you're replying to someone else here, just checking...)

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8 years 3 months ago #12173 by Wally
Replied by Wally on topic Re: Wing Paddle questions
Hi Guys,

Sorry if I came out sounding offensive, but this is a general help DVD, everyone will have a slightly different stroke for obvoius reasons, just like a golf swing the concept is essential to perform well.

Yes back to the initial question!

As far as I am concerned there are very few wing shapes out there as most manufactures out there have no idea of what they are making and how the wing shape works. Knockoffs are everywhere, remove them from the picture and you might be surprised at how few shapes there are, changing blade shapes slightly does not make you a designer!

It all boils down to what you are comfortable with and what makes you go faster. The stroke is more impotrant than the blade shape but they must agree with one another.

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #15859 by Stephen Bunney

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #16309 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Paddle trajectory
After a race on the weekend I saw a photo of myself alongside my nemisis and noted the different paddle tranjectory and hand height. I'm not sure what paddle he uses, mine is a Carbonology (Jantex Gamma design I believe).

We are very evenly matched over marathon distance and I just wonder if one technique is more efficient than the other. I know it's easier on my shoulders if I drop my hand height below my eye level but then I dont get the blade in as vertical upon entry and through the stroke and am paranoid I am losing speed as a result.

It seems Oscar can get away with lower hands but is he an anomoly :P Thoughts?



wanakikamoocow.smugmug.com/Sports/Flatwa...9&k=dLS8f9H&lb=1&s=A

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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7 years 5 months ago #16314 by Marieski
Replied by Marieski on topic Re: Paddle trajectory
Might the higher hand be faster over short distances but less efficient? In which case for marathon paddling you are better off. I find I am temporarily quicker, by only a little, with high hands, but if I try to do it for an hour, am invariably slower. Does this mean my technique is crap and I should just practice high hand more? Or that I'm an Oscar?

Sort of the same question as you, Brett.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #16317 by Kayaker Greg
Oscar is a muscular brute. I know a couple of other muscular brutes in paddling circles with a similar technique, low hands, chucking lots of water (I hate sitting behind them, even if I was able to keep up) and they are fast. Not the fastest out there but faster than me by a long way. Many say they would go heaps better with a few tweaks to their technique. These guys can do big miles.
I also know faster paddlers with a higher hand style. Guess it comes down to the individual, we are all different and there are many differences in technique out there amongst fast and slow paddlers.

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7 years 5 months ago - 7 years 5 months ago #16318 by Stephen Bunney
Man i would love a definitive answer on this one.

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7 years 5 months ago #16322 by slim white
Some times, the look for perfection address people to the total mistake.
The surfski technique obviously helps to everybody. But I think helps more to the less physical endowed than to the stronger athlete or perhaps encourage more to the feeble one. Being so strong as Oscar with minimum technique one could be more efficient as a pure technician paddler.

When you get what you want you don´t want what you get

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7 years 5 months ago #16324 by Wally
Replied by Wally on topic Re: Wing Paddle questions
You will be surprised to know Oscar does more sessions per week on technique than hard training.

Technique is more important than fitness, you will go further and faster with a good technique, but obviously fitness helps.

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7 years 5 months ago #16329 by gstamer
Replied by gstamer on topic Re: Wing Paddle questions
Yes, agree. I had a very good technique session with Oscar last week while he was visiting Florida. He strongly stresses technique and drills over just "paddling harder".

Being strong is good, but a benefit of good technique is not only improved speed but also that injuries are minimized.

Greg Stamer

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7 years 5 months ago #16330 by slim white
Probably I am speaking because I am 77 years old and with my technique I can go faster than others fellows youngers than me, really with my muscles almost gone. If I should have everything, muscles and technique I should be very happy, let us include also some less years and the felicity will be completed.hahahaha
Wally and friends I suppose you will understand me, if not after some years, when you were in my situation, you will understand perfectly and probably you will remember me with some smile in your tired lips, that´s for sure.

When you get what you want you don´t want what you get

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