How do beginners progress?

9 years 4 weeks ago #14371 by swimskier
Replied by swimskier on topic My first 5 weeks....

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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9 years 1 week ago #14642 by Love2ski
Ok, so it is just over a month since I started this topic. I've been paddling 2-3 times a week. In the last couple of weeks I have been heavily focussing on rotation. I think I am starting to get a feel for it.

Today I did 10kms in hot and flat conditions. I achieved my best 5kms so far:

Distance: 5.02km
Time: 31:51
Moving Time: 30:57
Elapsed Time: 32:08
Avg Speed: 9.5 km/h
Avg Moving Speed: 9.7 km/h
Max Speed: 13.9 km/h
Ave HR: 140bpm

Coming back I averaged 8kms an hour cruising. When I look at my speeds and times a while ago I was working hard to do 8kmhr.

I'm improving and I am getting much fitter. My resting heart rate has gone from 72 down to 60 which is pretty good for a 45 year old.

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8 years 11 months ago #14832 by swimskier
Replied by swimskier on topic Update after 3 months
So, after 3 months of paddling on the (recently rather choppy, but this time calm) lake I did a little interval session (10x4 min/30 sec). The 4 min averages were 11.3..12.2 km/h.. The rest of the trip was endurance paddling.
Some stats:
Time: 2:07:06
Moving time: 2:04:01
Distance 22.53 km
Avg speed: 10.6 km/h
Avg moving speed: 10.9 km/h
Max speed: 13 km/h
avg Hr: 147
max Hr: 167

I also took a short clip in the end
(
)
and would very much appreciate any advice from more experienced paddlers out there. Hope the bad habits would still be curable :blush:

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 11 months ago #14833 by Kayaker Greg
I think you are looking pretty good, although I'm sure there are always things to improve upon for any paddler always, for someone that has only been paddling 3 months and looking at your speed I should be looking to you for advice.
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8 years 11 months ago #14834 by Physio
Looks pretty smooth, and your speed/experience seems great

I've always been a fan of just picking one small thing to change and concentrate over a cpl of weeks until I feel im naturally getting it.
so your one thing for this week is straighten your forward arm so that it is fully straight and your putting the blade in further forward.
then vid from the side so we can see when your exiting the water.
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8 years 11 months ago - 8 years 11 months ago #14835 by kayaking
Replied by kayaking on topic Re: Update after 3 months

So, after 3 months of paddling on the (recently rather choppy, but this time calm) lake I did a little interval session (10x4 min/30 sec). The 4 min averages were 11.3..12.2 km/h.. The rest of the trip was endurance paddling.
Some stats:
Time: 2:07:06
Moving time: 2:04:01
Distance 22.53 km
Avg speed: 10.6 km/h
Avg moving speed: 10.9 km/h
Max speed: 13 km/h
avg Hr: 147
max Hr: 167

and would very much appreciate any advice from more experienced paddlers out there. Hope the bad habits would still be curable :blush:

They are looking great your brand new JANTEX paddles ;) And they seem to make a nice difference!
Hope to see you soon on water again !

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8 years 11 months ago #14836 by swimskier
Thanks Physio,
Next time it is not raining horizontally I'll try to focus on keeping the arm straight and reaching further forward. I'll ask my better half to film from a different angle to get a idea of the exit as well..

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 11 months ago #14837 by swimskier
Replied by swimskier on topic Re: Update after 3 months
.. after a few outings with the Jantex (medium+) it feels easier to increase the cadence. It is also lighter that the EPIC mid-wing (white hybrid version).

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 11 months ago #14840 by Love2ski
Replied by Love2ski on topic Re: Update after 3 months
Great numbers swimskier. I'm hovering around the 9-9.5kmhr average now on my XT.

I am ready to get some lessons because I know there is plenty of development in my technique.

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8 years 11 months ago - 8 years 11 months ago #14841 by Love2ski
Replied by Love2ski on topic Re: Update after 3 months
Here is my weekly progression since I started 3 months ago. It gives an idea of how a newbie evolves.
Attachments:

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8 years 11 months ago #14844 by ElRicho
Yeah not bad. I think if you really focus on the forward hand pause. This part of the set up. It is important to remember that paddling is not a continual propellor motion, its a series of strokes, it that makes sense. Refer the link below.



If you want to work on your reach, stick some little bits plastic, like little antenna on the side of your boat where your paddle enters. It will keep your reach out there and make sure its even.

Hope that helps :)
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8 years 11 months ago #14849 by swimskier
Very instructive clip indeed.

For the entry marker (that antenna kind of thingy), I'm wondering how to find the best position for it. I guess it depends on arm length, torso flex, paddle length etc. but is there a general guide-line like as far forward that head doesn't start moving back and forth?

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 11 months ago #14857 by ElRicho
Just experiment with your reach. As you improve, it will extend. If you try to get someone to look at your angles and compare them to the video that should give you an idea. What I have found is that as you get tired, your reach will reduce. This is why the little antenna give you good feedback and will keep your technique in check. There is no point practicing poor technique.

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8 years 11 months ago #14894 by Surfboy1
Not sure where to post this, sorry if it is in the wrong place...
Does anyone happen to have a Viking Javelin 14 (4.0 m) for sale?

Best Regards.

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8 years 7 months ago #16257 by swimskier
another status report on novice paddler progress after 6.5 months of paddling.. :blush:

Thanks again for your advice. Concentrating on setup and catch seems to slooowly pay off.

Yesterday I hit the water and went straight into hard, but sustainable pace, kept it there for 5 km, and then paddled easily back. It took some 15 min to reach the steady 160-163 HR, which is some 5 beats below my hard running HR or 5-10 beats below hard XC-skiing, but rather similar to hard bike riding. Anyway, I was pleased with 24:04 (12.5 km/h) for 5k. Next time I´ll try to keep it for 10 km, then 15 km, 20km,... :unsure:

My present goal is a 42 k race in June, so the volume needs to go up now as the temperatures are going up at last..

garmin data: connect.garmin.com/activity/299325727

safe paddling!

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 7 months ago #16262 by Kocho
You've done some excellent progress in a very short time! Thanks for posting the videos! When I saw your first one I gasped at the horrendous form, then at the end of the "week 5" it looked quite decent but I was still about to make a comment when I saw your latest vid - there you had already fixed what I noticed was an issue in week 5! Did you take your 5 lessons deal from the SUP guy ;) who sold you the ski? I think you'll be giving lessons soon :)

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8 years 7 months ago #16264 by swimskier
Thanks for the encouragement Kocho!

I had one session with he SUP guy, but otherwise I've been trying to apply many useful tips I've found on this forum. The youtube videos, like the one suggested by ElRicho, are also very instructive. When I've then seen my own GoPro horror movies, despite of being humiliating, they also help to spot some obvious flaws. It would of course be ideal to have somebody more knowledgeable to suggest the right drills to get rid of the bad habits, but...

I'm expecting a delivery of the new V10 Ultra next week and I hope the extra stability will help in reducing the loss of speed in choppy conditions. I'm also more and more playing with the idea of getting a K1 like Nelo Quattro or Vanquish Classic to improve the paddling technique and balance. Any thoughts and experience on this would of course be most welcome.

Nelo 560 SCS, Nelo Cinco E XXL, Epic V8 Ultra,

Previous skis: Epic V14 Elite, Fenn Elite Glide Carbon, Epic V10 Ultra G2, EPIC V10L Elite G1,
Previous K1s: Nelo Cinco SCS XXXL, Vajda Infusion 2 XL Elite, Epic Legacy XXL Marathon,Elio Sprint-P Marathon

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8 years 7 months ago #16304 by 1xsculler
This is a very informative topic and I really appreciate all of the responses.
Here's my newbie contribution.
My question and concern is my very slow progress in developing stability in choppy water, let alone waves, and if you develop stability in a 16kg V8, or the equivalent, will it really help in developing stability in my 11.8kg V12?
I spent a about a dozen sessions in my S1-X (11.36kg), my first attempt in a paddling craft, last fall and got so I could go about two miles on pretty flat water but any chop was very challenging.
I sold that ski and bought a V12 Ultra (11.8kg), which I paddled with great difficulty, about six times on flat water three weeks ago at home.
Here on Maui for ten days I rented a V8 Performance (16kg) and found it to be very stable even in washing machine chop. I expended virtually no mental or physical energy on stability in the V8 but I didn't think I was making much progress towards becoming more comfortable in my V12 for when I get back home so I traded the V8 for a V10 Sport Ultra (11.8kg). The V10 is definitely much more tippy than the V8 and not nearly as tippy as my V12. I can work on my stroke when in the V10 on pretty flat water but when it gets choppy I use most of mental and physical energy for stability and really can't get much done on my stroke.
Starting tomorrow at home I will paddle my V12 everyday in front of my home for 15 to 30 minutes at a to try and develop my stroke and stability skills. At home I'll probably never take the opportunity to paddle on rough water as it's too easy to just go out in front of my home. If I ever get comfortable enough in my V12 I might enter a soundrowers.org event although I find it a PIA to take the time to transport my ski and kill a day doing it.
Sorry for the lengthy and boring post but what I'd like to hear about is how does one progress in stability so it doesn't take a lot of mental and physical energy to remain upright with confidence?

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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8 years 7 months ago #16305 by Wally
Just one thing to note, you will never get your stroke correct with an unstable ski. You say so yourself by concentrating more on staying upright.

I have gone from 10kg V12 to a 17kg V10 Sport and am now going faster than I have ever been on my V12, obviously in flat calm water the V12 is quicker, but I don't do flat water, I have a ski for open ocean rough water. I even switched to the V8 for a few races and that is not much slower than the V10 Sport.

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8 years 7 months ago #16306 by Love2ski
Wow 1xsculler, you are taking on a challenge to master a light v12!

I started 6 months ago on 10.5kg fenn xt. I found that very tippy so I can't imagine what a light v12 would be like to start on.

Checking my Garmin I have done over 95 hours of paddling in the last six months.

I have reached the stage where I can comfortably do 15kms averaging about 10km/hr. The only time I feel challenged in terms of stability is very rough rebounding messy waves (Middle head sydney).

The great thing about the stability is that I can really concentrate on my technique. For example I have noticed that my stroke is unbalanced. I apply far more power on my left side, whilst my right side is weak. If i really put the hammer down my right hand stroke applies almost no power.

The stability allows me to work on rectifying this and to build up my right side. I think i will get the next jump in speed from this.It seems logical that if I am favouring one side I must be using the rudder to correct the steering. This has to be really slow given the constant drag.

The other thing I was able to do was to change to a tiny rudder. This has removed the keel effect from the rudder, and is forcing me to learn to keep the boat flat without leaning.

I do lust after a faster boat, as the XT does have some speed limitations particularily on the flat. However I am going to keep it for another six months as I want to embed a very good technique before moving to a 45cm width boat. Also a carbon XT is so awesome on swells!

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