Fitness? Surfski or Ourtigger canoe?

6 years 5 months ago #20674 by pierreb
Out of those who have experience with both, which one is best for general fitness? For strength, power, muscular conditioning? Paddling a surfski or an OC1?

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6 years 5 months ago #20675 by Sandy
Of course you are aware that this is SURFSKI.INFO..... :woohoo:

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6 years 5 months ago #20676 by steveburge
I think outrigger. Due to stability you can load up a stroke better. I am looking at crosstraining back into outrigger for that reason.

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6 years 5 months ago #20680 by Stanton
Replied by Stanton on topic Fitness? Surfski or Ourtigger canoe?
I'm not sure that I'm an expert on much. Buuuuut, I may be close to an expert on this topic as much as I have fretted about it lately. I paddle both. I have been primarily an OC paddler the last few years. During those years I have also owned a V8 that I had paddled sporadically and my wife has now claimed it. After several experiences the past few months based on long distance OC paddles and sore left hip and leg I decided it may be time to get serious about a surfski. Love the stability of the OC and would agree with the OP that because of the stability offered by the ama, you can really crank on the paddle. But it also promotes bad habits (for me) that stem from cheating the ama. You just naturally load up the left side of your body. A few weeks ago I bought a new V10Sport. Love it. Today, I paddled it in a large race here in the Tampa Bay Area. 10 miler. If it wasn't for the balance issue it would really be awesome. Much more balanced body effort. Everything is balanced left to right. No sore back. No numb leg. No pinched hip. If I just didn't go swimming so much. The Sport has crazy good secondary stability but when you pass it by a mm, you're gone. No such issue in the OC.

More directly to the point of your thread I believe the OC is a better fitness machine....for my body. I can tell you that I build more upper body muscle from repeated efforts on the OC than I ever have on a ski. Dating back to the V8.

Hope I'll remain patient and committed to the ski as I think it would be kinder to my body over the years just because of the balanced effort. Same efforts left and right.

My .02

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6 years 5 months ago #20686 by darebet
Replied by darebet on topic Fitness? Surfski or Ourtigger canoe?
Surfski. Don't let anyone tell you different.

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6 years 5 months ago #20692 by LaPerouseBay
Outriggers will make you strong as hell, no doubt. I'm on Maui and have nothing but praise for the outrigger paddlers here. In fact, the best paddlers on this island are in outrigger and standup. Ski is a fringe sport here, tradition is king.

I've done standup, outrigger and ski, in that order. I still dabble in the standup for cross training.

Personally, ski feels better than outrigger. More fluid, less traumatic. Better for my lumbar and shoulders. Gave me a new lease on life, actually. Love the ski. Totally hooked.

Once your balance becomes natural, skis will allow you to drive your lactate threshold like any other sport. It just takes a some time.

Like any other sport - when you get your hips into it, the magic happens. Super fun boats. Endless learning curve. 2 1/2 years in and the boat just keeps getting faster and faster. And easier on my body. Win win.

downwind dilettante

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6 years 5 months ago #20693 by zachhandler
I find the kayak more aerobically demanding and more demanding on the legs. Canoe is a better upper body strength workout for me.

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #20694 by Marieski
I can't comment as we don't own a tiger and if we did, the last place I'd put it is in a canoe.

Though I imagine it would be an excellent workout if I did.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7
The following user(s) said Thank You: Fuyang Guy

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6 years 5 months ago #20697 by photofr
One could go and prove that surfski is a better workout (certainly more complete than an outrigger) - but if you are looking for quick bulk muscles, the outrigger may be the best choice for your arms.

Here's my take on it:
The surfski will work my legs, and upper body - but will avoid the sore backs & sore shoulders.
The outrigger will provide "quick" muscles on my upper body.
If I only paddle the outrigger, I develop muscles and sore joints.
Since I love the outrigger, I find that mixing it up prevents ALL INJURIES.
I paddle both, surfski first, but if I had to choose only one for recreation: I'd choose the outrigger because of its versatility. For any serious training, I would choose the surfski so as to prevent injuries (mostly to shoulders).

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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6 years 5 months ago #20698 by pierreb
I really appreciate the responses, thank you. My perspective is that of a guy who's been paddling -kayak then surfski- for a few years but doesn't want to give up his original sports of running, cycling, swimming and weights. I only ever can paddle about twice a week and that's never enough to become really stable and as a result I never found that I could express much power/fitness other than occasional weeks when I'd paddle everyday, and then I would feel a difference.
To sum up, surfski is always rather technical but not much physical for me, and it frustrates me because I like to exhaust myself in my sports.
My impression is that on an OC1, the added stability would allow me to put out more effort, to use muscle, hence more breathing, and to feel more satisfied. I have used an OC1 twice and it did give me this impression...

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6 years 5 months ago #20702 by zachhandler
It is very hard to get anything other than a crampy core muscle workout if you are having balance issues on a ski. I imaging in a more stable ski you could hammer hard the way you want to. Would probably be faster overall and would definitely make surfing easier.

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6 years 4 months ago #20739 by gbowd3
Do all! Ski, SUP, oc1, oc6, surfing,
swimming, K1. Then you'll be having fun and get an all-round fitness.

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6 years 4 months ago #20783 by ergometer
really your thinking is right about best fitness. if you use <a href=" ergometer.org ">ergometer Vergleich service than you can gain more tips about fitness.

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6 years 4 months ago - 6 years 4 months ago #20787 by photofr
As you progress in the world of sports, you may also find that you end-up in a vicious circle.

First, you get a surfski (or similar). You'll mostly work your upper body, build more strength on your back, stomach muscles, trapeze, arms, and even legs to a certain degree.

Then you take up biking. You will work several muscle groups, including legs (obviously). As you build more strength on your legs, you will also build more lung capacity. This may also result in better oxygen transfer (because that's what your lungs do) and in turn…

You will then get back on your surfski with a timing device (like a GPS). The more you bike, the faster you will be on a surfski.

So the vicious circle is all about finding a balance, and perhaps the hardest thing of it all is to find more time to ride a surfski - when specifically you get faster on a ski for as long as you are biking.

Add to the mix SWIMMING, and you will be experience even more benefits - as well as injury preventions.

Now… you have your surfski, your bike and you swimming to take care of… How can you find even more time for you SURFSKI ?

Don't loose track of it all… have fun doing it, or have fun doing it all.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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6 years 4 months ago #20802 by Stanton
Replied by Stanton on topic Fitness? Surfski or Ourtigger canoe?
Thought I would post a little update. As I had posted in this thread earlier I paddle both OC1 and surfski....new V10S. Two nights this week I paddled the same course, 6 miles, as a time trial. Paddled the ski one night and OC1...Puukea Ehukai...the next time. The conditions were different but there was a 2 mile stretch in the middle of the paddle where conditions were pretty close. To my surprise I was faster in the OC1 for those 2 miles by 0.20 MPH. Watching the GoPro tells the story. On the surfski where I'm still finding my balance, my tentativeness in some side chop conditions caused me to trade balance for power. On the OC1 in similar conditions I powered through. The GoPro also reflects that the OC1 is much more about power AND technique while the ski is more about technique alone....for me at this time. I can put the power to the blade but not with correct form. The rotation and catch are enough to throw my balance off in the ski. If I don't rotate and do my arm paddling I can hold my balance but I don't get good power transfer. I will be curious to see how that progresses. Clearly the better _workout_ was the OC1. But I agree with LaPerouser above that the ski is surely easier on my joints and overall body. Will update as things progress.

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6 years 4 months ago #20803 by pierreb
Thank you for the feedback. From both my experience and the very valid viewpoints that have been shared here, I am pretty sure that my new boat will be an OC1. With limited time for paddling, I will more easily enjoy real workouts like I do with my other sports, than I do with the surfski where half my energy is spent staying upright. I'm not particularly gifted with great balance generally so flat water is a breeze but chop spoils the experience and if I do enjoy surfing in waves, I'm too limited and still would rather have a workout. Thank you all.

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6 years 4 months ago #20804 by red_pepper
I paddle both (OC-1 & OC-2, plus Epic V12 surf ski). They make a good cross-workout combination for each other. You'll build more shoulder, arm, and chest muscle with the outrigger, while you'll probably build more core muscle and better balance with the surf ski. I also do a lot of road biking and cross-country skiing (when there's snow) to try to keep all-around fitness. On flat water, I'm about 1 mph faster in the V12 than in the OC-1 (Scorpius XS), but when conditions get rough I can power through in the outrigger. We have our OC-2 (Huki V2-X) set up to use either canoe or kayak paddles; it's got competitive speed with surf skis when using the kayak paddles and makes a great open-water race machine with that setup (as an inland paddler I don't get a lot of open water experience, so the OC's make it easier to race in open water when I get the chance).

Outriggers are kind of interesting in terms of balance; obviously, you don't need as much balance with the outrigger, but you'll also find there's essentially no secondary stability. If you tip just a little too far too the right, you'll suddenly find yourself "moistened". :) It's amazing how many new paddlers will tip an outrigger over; I would think their instinct would be to lean left (into the ama), but I guess they get feeling confident and don't think about it. If you want more stability, you can always add a little weight to the ama; with that lever arm, it doesn't take a lot to really stabilize things.

Speed capability seems to be pretty comparable; while you do have some drag from the ama, the hulls can be very narrow without needing to provide secondary stability, so it seems to balance out. I think I'm slower in the OC-1 mainly because I'm not as skilled with the canoe paddle.

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6 years 4 months ago #20806 by Ranga
Sorry I have to disagree with your assumption of speed being similar.
A ski is way faster.
I tried to get an OC1 paddler onto a ski, he was hopeless could not take one stroke fell over instantaneously on one of the most stable ski around Epic V8.
Obviously no balance required on an outrigger!

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6 years 4 months ago #20808 by photofr
A surfski is always faster - no doubt.
However, I can see where a surfski would be slower: in the hands of someone who is swimming next to it, or while someone is in the "improvement stage" - then, and perhaps only then, would an outrigger be faster.

From personal experience, I can get someone new on an outrigger (fair physical shape) and have them paddle right away. Their speed will always be faster on the outrigger, compared to the same person just getting started on a surfski.

In a ski, the paddler rarely has enough balance to power himself/herself - at the beginning. This changes completely when the paddling technique and balance kick in.

To be fair, we could then say:
When properly paddled, a surfski is faster and always will be.
When paddled by a beginner with large muscle groups, an outrigger will almost always be faster (at first).

You can make an outrigger very tippy, but you can usually make the same outrigger pretty stable. You can't really make a Fenn Spark or an Epic V10 super stable.

Having very little time to train?
Looking for a very FULL workout?
Try a 14-foot Stand Up Paddle Board.
Want more speed? Go for a surfski.
Want the most amount of versatility? Try an outrigger (you can even free-dive / fish off of it - yet train like a madman with… even the worst technique)

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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6 years 4 months ago #20814 by Stanton
Replied by Stanton on topic Fitness? Surfski or Ourtigger canoe?
Tanga, not to be argumentative but since I paddle both I must say that my own experience proves different. At least for me. Rather than reiterating I would ask you to read my post that is few prior to your post. The GPS and the GoPro tell the story. My wife paddles a V8 and I really think you would halve to be intentional to fall off. As far as your opinion about OC requiring no balance this simply is untrue. Yes, you can cheat the ama to aid your balance but if you've ever paddled the OC while flying the ama you'll know that it takes a healthy balance. Same thing if your paddling in beam sea conditions. Whatever, as long as you're on the water I think that is all that counts, right?

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