Venturi Drain Question

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7 years 6 months ago #22983 by Uncle Frosty
I can't seem to paddle my 18 ft. ski fast enough, long enough to drain a footwell full of water. Can I modify the venturi drain so it will drain at a slower speed, perhaps restricting the openings? I have tried to research the Venturi principle of fluid dynamics, but my eyes just glaze over.

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #22984 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Venturi Drain Question
For a start that bullet is too far out from the venturi to have any effect.

It needs to be inside the venturi some so that the measured distance between the bullet and the venturi is about equal all the way around, from memory the gap around mine is about 5-6mm.

Just been out and measured my 3 skis, Stellars 6mm, Swordfish 5mm (has two smaller venturi and bullets so tighter gap).

The idea of course is to prevent turbulence around the venturi which slows the draining, streamline the flow and it drains quicker and at slower speeds.
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Kayaker Greg.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Uncle Frosty

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7 years 6 months ago #22985 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Venturi Drain Question
I have the same Stellar S18s with exactly the same ishue. I discussed this will stellar and they said it was fine and not a warrantee ishue. So, Apperently a missplaced bullet is standard and not draining is a new feature of Stellar's. Count me not happy.

Grinding off the bullet and replacing it is the easiest option. Or if you brave, do this and transform the ski..

www.surfski.info/forum/15-tips/18192-ven...y-bailer-plasty.html

I really like the ski but the bailer and my dealings with stellar were less than stellar.

Bill

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Uncle Frosty

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7 years 6 months ago #22986 by Oskar
Replied by Oskar on topic Venturi Drain Question
Our all-in-one venturi/bullet will drain all water in the cockpit at a speed of between 7 and 7.5kph. There are two sizes, for faster draining choose the large size.
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7 years 6 months ago #22987 by Uncle Frosty
Replied by Uncle Frosty on topic Venturi Drain Question
That sounds like just what I need Oskar. Can you post a link for purchase? Do you have a dealer in the USA?

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #22988 by Uncle Frosty
Replied by Uncle Frosty on topic Venturi Drain Question
It may have been beginner's luck, but I was able to pop the bullet by wedging a sharp hatchet under it, after going around the perimeter of the bullet with a sharp knife. No damage to the surrounding gel coat. Some gel coat came off with the bullet, but no big deal. Grinders and I do not get along too well.
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Uncle Frosty. Reason: spelling

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7 years 6 months ago #22990 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Venturi Drain Question
Count your lucky stars. Mine didn't come off without damaging the bottom of the ski badly

While Oskars bailers are nice do drain at very low speeds plus they seem like they are a very slippery shape, they do not bail fast. The opening has too small a cross sectional area compared with the 2cm hole in the bottom of the stellar and it acted as a restricter. In a two bailer system or keeping it dry inside from the odd splashes it would work super. But if you need to drain a flood bucket in a hurry it takes nearly as long as the miss placed bullet. The Oskar bullet I have takes twice as long to drain my cocpit in my SR as a well placed stellar bullet and that Is way too long in a fig bucket like the SR and S18s.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Uncle Frosty

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #22992 by Uncle Frosty
Replied by Uncle Frosty on topic Venturi Drain Question
The misplacement of the Venturi bullet on our Stellar 18s' is clearly a manufacturing defect that should be corrected under warrenty. I have contacted the kayak store that I bought my S18s from, asking how to proceed with the warrenty repair. If there is no satisfaction, then maybe we should pursue some type of class action? I would love for someone to point out how I am wrong in thinking along these lines.
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Uncle Frosty. Reason: spelling

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7 years 6 months ago #22996 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Venturi Drain Question
Well a class action seems a bit much and not feasible. Just this discussion does a fare bit of damage. Before you get too mad, see what stellar does for you. Then take it from there. Feel lucky it's just a bailer... My story is much bigger.

For me, I'm pretty mad at them. I ordered a S18s with custom bulkhead placement to maximize touring capacity. I was sent a picture to conferm the placement and it was correct. When the ski arived 4 or so months later the bulkhead not in the correct place but was behind the rudder post ( between the handle and stern) insted of in front of it acting as a bulkhead in case of post damage.... So it did nothing. The bow bulkhead was in the right place but I was told there would be no stringers in the bow and there is. When it arived and I saw the ishues I should have not received it and should have stated I wanted another like what I ordered. Instead I was told under no uncertain terms that it would be fixed to my specks...please please take the ski, so I did.

After numerous calls and emails It took me a month + to get them to answer me and do something about it. I told them the stringers were ok in the bow but I would like the stern bulkhead where i asked for it to be. I drove it 30 miles one way to a place they wanted to work on it ( Pocock racing shells) and it say there for a number of weeks. I also mentions that the bailer dident work and somthing should be done about it.

I was told the ski was done and when I picked it up the bulkhead was not where I should have been. It was in the stock location making half the stern unavailable to pack and exactly why I had orders custom placement, so it was two feet twords the cockpit from where I specked both in the original and what I told Stellar to tell Pocock. This was not Pococke fault, they told me the put it where they could reach as instructed, and they did a very nice job. But it was still in the wrong place by a lot! Nothing was done about the bailer. When I contacted stellar about the still misplaced bulkhead I was given the old... "look, we have done all we can" and the implacation that up I was being a pain in the ass. When he asked what I wanted ( president of stellar, can't reamamber his name at the moment) , I told him. " that's simple, what I paid for. I want a boat with the bulkheads where I asked and a bailer that worked" He said that would not be possible.

That was a year ago. As of now I have a ski with a bailer that doesn't work and a bulkhead in a worse place than when it arived in the wrong place... And Stellar has washed there hands of me.

So, lession learned. I will never buy a stellar boat again, I wont recommend one and I feel I was shafted and am happy to tell people about my experience. Oh, and if there as anything wrong with a boat just delivered.. Do not except it with any promises, they did not come threw
on mine.

So , it is word of mouth that does the most damaged. I told lots of people my story and at least two besides me decided not to buy a stellar because of it. So that makes three boats not sold.
It's a shame as I was happy to deal with the mastake if they fixed it. But nearly three months and having to bug them to get it 'not' fixed, being told the bailer is fine and I'm being picky and being told I had run out of options so basicly go away.... No more Stellar for me.

What they should have done is said... You keep the messed up boat until we make you another. Please be nice to it and when you get your correct new boat we will use the other as a demo. Then I would have been singing there praises and it would have been a win for them several times over. Instead they blew customer service 101.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #22998 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Venturi Drain Question
Bad news Newbflat, I'd be mightily pissed as well. Is this not more a dealer/ rep issue than the manufacturer/company though? Have two Stellars myself and been very well looked after, though nothing major like yours. Peter Latham (retired now) and James Payne here always helpful. Recall enduro bike racing days when one Yamaha dealer would do a shitty job and charge the earth while another really look after you and follow up etc. While the bung build issue is a separate manufacturer construction issue, an ordered re-fit stuff-up is entirely another when clear and explicit directions have not been followed.

Maybe your ire better directed at the distributor in this instance than the manufacturer. As pointed out above, these issues do affect boat sales and people's attitudes to brands. I do understand that if you only have one company or distributor in your area, they have you by the short and curlies. Have gone any higher in the chain - state area manager, national distributor? What about consumer protection or some federal body that looks after consumer rights and pursuing the matter from that direction? Unfortunate mate, hope it gets sorted fairly.
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Watto. Reason: Spelling

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7 years 6 months ago #23002 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Venturi Drain Question
I'm not sure who's to blame. To my eye the buck stops at Stellar USA. I ordered the ski threw the closest distributer to me in Victoria Canada even though I'm in the U.S. The custom bulkhead placements were OK'ed by stellar and they sent me a photo to confirm placement. The ski was delivered by the distributer and promises were made by him about the ishues. I was immediately refured to Dave Thomas the co owner of Stellar USA and all my comunication were with him both by email and phone. I wish I had our last conversation as an email for the record but it was a phone call when he gave me the brush off.

The ishues with the ski were mistakes made in China, but the warrantee work ball dropping/ brush off was the responsability of Stellar USA.

I would love it if they made it right but I don't really want to fight that battle again. I have accepted that I was screwed and will just warn others. It was made clear to me by Dave they were done with me "because they tried there best" even though the didn't fix anything, just made it worse actually.

The S18s is a nice ski, nothing wrong with the boat it's self, but the support sucks, at least I my case.

I'm actually in the market for an intermediate ski and the SEI would be in the running, but Epic V10 sport, Think Evo II and Huki S1-R are the only boats I'm considering... I don't fit in the Swordfish.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #23003 by Simon Haywood
Uncle Frosty,

I have a 4 month old(from build) S18S Excel this one has twin venturi/bullets - It drains really well couldn't ask for better. Stellar's do suffer a little drainage problems - So, on all my single venturi/bullet set ups on my other skis - I've replaced with Andersen Bailers they work a treat - problem solved.











Bill, sorry to hear your drama re your ski - In Australia we have an excellent distributor and my retailer (is above & beyond) they both are prepared to go out of there way to sort out these sort of issues. Have you contacted Stellar USA (Dave Thomas) I've found him to be very receptive.

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!
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Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Simon Haywood.

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7 years 6 months ago #23004 by Uncle Frosty
Replied by Uncle Frosty on topic Venturi Drain Question
Simon,
I sent an email to the shop where I purchased my ski. The folks there are stand-up guys. I am not liking too much what I am hearing about Stellar. I am jealous of the twin venturi drains and the handles on your 18s. I specifically asked about custom handles for mine and about after market installation of the handles. I was discourged by Stellar in heading in this direction and was slightly pissed, to say the least when the new model came out six monthes latter with midship handles.

Don't get me wrong. I love my 18s and have had so much fun with it this past year.
UF

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #23005 by Simon Haywood
Uncle Frosty,

I feel for you - I had the almost identical problems and others with Epic(bought 5 skis over 15months) they wouldn't know customer service if it bite them in the arse - I've found the people at Stellar to be really helpful...sure they have had some issues that needed sorting (bought 9 skis over the last 18months) But in stark contrast to Epic they have kept their word and fixed the problems above and beyond in my opinion...I found everyone at Stellar to be really helpful.

My suggestion to everybody in sorting out issues; put it in writting...telephone conversations aren't worth the paper there written on!

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Simon Haywood.

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7 years 6 months ago #23006 by MaxB
Replied by MaxB on topic Venturi Drain Question
Why on earth have you bought 9 skis in 18mths??? (Plus another 5 in the year prior?)

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7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #23007 by Simon Haywood
MaxB,

First rule of boat ownership can be defined by the formula: N+1
(where N is number currently owned)

Secondly, because I can...

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!
Last edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Simon Haywood.
The following user(s) said Thank You: owenw

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7 years 6 months ago #23009 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic Venturi Drain Question
Hey Simon.
Where are you? Can you give me a heads up on your next yard sale?

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7 years 6 months ago #23010 by 1xsculler
Replied by 1xsculler on topic Venturi Drain Question
As soon as I get around to it I'm going to install the new Epic bailer in my Stellar SES Ultra. I love the ski but that big, bulky, poorly streamlined bailer and bullet that came on the ski didn't appeal to me at all. It did damage the finish when I removed the original one but I had to do a little repair in that area anyway and it's just clear coat over the carbon so it's easy to refinish.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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7 years 6 months ago #23021 by Uncle Frosty
Stellar is addressing my Venurti drain issue under warrenty. I wish I would have started with them, but I was not sure if I had a problem or not. I am attaching a drawing of the proper Venturi drain placement per Dave at Stellar USA. THANKS DAVE. I am a happy Stellar customer.
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7 years 6 months ago #23022 by Simon Haywood
Uncle frosty, a very good result...kudos Dave Thomas (Stellar USA) that is one of the reasons I buy & paddle Stellars now and is typical across all the people I've dealt with in Stellar.

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!

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