OCEAN SURFSKI coming to Perth - test paddle!

6 years 1 month ago #24967 by photofr
I am wondering about the placement of the drainage…
In the picture, it's located in the footwell, behind the footboard.
Is that how it was intended ?
If that's the case, I am assuming that the paddler will not be able to operated while moving. Is that the intent ?

More importantly, the drainage point has to represent the lowest point in the footwell. In the particular case, it would appear that the lowest point of the footwell is located behind the footplate. If that's the case, it would mean that my heels would be higher than needed. Is that also the intent, and if so, why not gain an extra 1 to 2 cm of "heel lowering" ?

I am asking this in the most constructive critic.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #24968 by Uffilation
seems the operating mech. was not attached in that fig. , see fb page of ocean reg. the bailer q

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6 years 1 month ago #24969 by OSS
Right!- All skis are pre-production boats for demo purposes....our aim, to get as much customer feedback as possible and then produce the even better boats.
Hence, not all parts are final parts (we actually have a variety of parts on different boats) and not all details were implemented for these purposes (e.g. opening/closing mechanism).

Drainage - yes it is in front and drains much faster than any other ski I have paddled so far...you must see, touch and feel our skis to understand that they are in deed "different" but in a positive way!

Regarding our production - we are not worried about Kanghua in Hangzhou at all. They do a brilliant job, we have our own QC person (Aussi) at location and are confident that we will always deliver best quality.

The problem of the current conversation is that we all want the "Porsche" for the price of a "Kia" (I am not different but realistic enough to know that this is impossible). At least, we do our best to offer "Porsche" at Audi or VW prices (in contrast to some brands who do exactly the opposite).
Would you be happy to pay $1.5k more (in retail) for a ski just to know that it is made in Australia or similar?

Thanks for all feedback - we take it serious and will take it on board!

New, innovative, different!

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6 years 1 month ago #24971 by Dicko
Augusta Adventure race in 2 and a bit weeks. 700+ paddlers, probably more hanging around. Biggest adventure race in the world. Good river and ocean conditions for a paddle.
Great opportunity to showcase a new product.

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6 years 1 month ago #24972 by OSS
Hi Dicko,

yes, would be great. Unfortunately, we just started the business a few weeks ago and do not have the human resources to be all over Australia at the same time...unfortunately, we do have to follow a step-by-step approach...but please keep posting upcoming events, we will always try to come and showcase our products!

Thanks!!!

New, innovative, different!

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6 years 1 month ago #24974 by Ronbo
As a fellow Australian entrepreneur using several Chinese suppliers, I feel obligated to add a comment to this thread. I own a small company that builds portable desalination systems, which has about 200 parts. Our suppliers are from Australia, USA, Italy, Poland, and about five small manufacturing companies from China. I applaud OSS's approach on this and would like to make a couple of points:

1. Companies have to incorporate their R&D cost into the price of their new products. I would be pretty disappointed to find my chosen ski manufacturer spending valuable R&D time trying to redesign a commodity item like the foot plate sliding device. Yes, it's very similar to my V12 and my brand new single footwell Tarpon spec ski (which is great by the way). I could be wrong, but I can't imagine anyone can claim IP rights to a little bracket with holes in it and a spring loaded clippy thing. Does OSS really need to design their own bracket with holes in it? My company certainly didn't design our own high pressure fittings or reverse osmosis membranes.

2. So long as they manage quality, I would probably prefer them using Chinese manufacturers. I am trying to shift more and more of our component sourcing to these small entrepreneurial Chinese companies because I am finding them better to deal with for this kind of low/medium tech manufacturing. They're not lazy like many of the western companies we have found. They stick to delivery commitments by working past 5pm to get the job done. They are hungry for business and work very hard to keep us happy and keep our business. If quality issues do arise, they get it sorted out promptly. I get the feeling that many western companies just don't care that much. Forget about price differences, I find the Chinese companies better to deal with in many situations.

I'm a citizen of the world and don't worry about where something is made. I'll pay for value and quality, but don't care if it's made in Sydney, Cape Town, Ningbo, or Los Angeles. I recognise many people don't agree with this view. I believe OSS should be judged on the performance and reliability of their skis, the quality of service, and the value you see at their chosen price point relative to others on the market.

I have no connection to OSS, have never met them, probably never will. I just like seeing entrepreneurial guys having a go and testing the market with new designs. I wish them well. Sorry, I'll get down from my pedestal now.
The following user(s) said Thank You: AR_convert, owenw, Watto, OSS

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6 years 1 month ago #24975 by Dicko
And to add to Rondo's piece, its great to see a company using this forum to promote their product and inform the paddling public. It is being done in an honest and upfront manner.
Should be more of it.

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #24977 by Uffilation
OSS, dicko, ronbo,
and if one choses such a platform, it creates reaction.

Me = big fan of "Fred in the shed" born companies and that grew organically and are built up manufacturing expertise vs. using China as a big 3D-printer. I do not want a Porsche for a Kia/Audi/VW price. I am of negative opinions on where all the bargain hunting spiral will drive a society and its longterm welth and social stability, but this does not belong here. I am a big fan of anyone that brings a product to life, if competition / customer's stinginess dicates China, so be it.

But does that hold for all industries and all products? Hey we are not talking rocket engineering or electronics here and not complicated assemblies
> gee, it's making stuff from composites.

Taking e.g. molded/machined parts off the shelve for assemblies like the foot rest is also not the issue, that is ok for cost reasons, it's just how you present it and how some will react to that.

I am answering to assure that no offense/negative critic is intended and that I think that neither "wanting a Porsche for a Kia price" vs. "Made in China" is the "problem" of the conversation.

IMHO, certain formulations cause reactions:
- "All components including footrest, rudders and steering system are designed from scratch, incorporating feedback from paddlers all over the world paddling all kinds of surfski in all kinds of conditions."
- "Rest assured, all components are 100% designed from scratch (by Felci Yacht Design in Italy), no copies, no parts from other skis.",
reg. the footrest as an example, no big deal, it's just a foot rest not a rocket and using 80% parts proved in practice by others and redesigning some would not be criticized 'cause all do that, but that is not "all components 100% designed from scratch" = one should expect such reactions.
Note that your big logo on the skis says "Ocean Australia", but was designed in Italy (a pro for marketing) and manufactured in China (dillutes that "Australia" part in that logo for some). People subconsciously react to the latter, at least when they see the "Made in China" sticker 1 min. later, imho and have a 2nd read on the slogan "innovative and different" or "We are different".

Let's say you would make a statement on making the lightest craft? The 40+X male will put it on the scale and each gramm it weighs above the 1+x years older competitor's product will actually add tons on its "felt weight" in his review. You say 100% designed from scratch? They'll pinpoint you on the part that is not.

You won't need those phrases, you've been sucessfull already, the looks of the ski and the design background from Felci and of yours allow you to skip that usual hot air blowing that has become a tradition in this "marketing only" driven society. The rest will come from reviews made "in conditions". "Test it and you'll want it". From the hull shape+bow, I'd buy it untested as a flat water ski.

I am rather new to surfski paddling, but even I already yawn at any "genuine engineering to make a craft being the lightest and fastest while still offerring unmatched stability based on high tech manufacturing and next century materials developed by in-house R&D"-type slogans ...

Australian made: I'd pay the extra buck, although that does not even make sense when sitting in europe (if a product is shipped over the ocean anyway, it does not matter if from China or Australia). But that is just grumpy old me and the majority will surely look for the most bounce for the ounce > which is who you are selling too.

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6 years 1 month ago #24978 by Uffilation
@ronbo,
your point 2 is convincing if that is your experience on western companies. Mine is different as it was coined elsewhere it seems.

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6 years 1 month ago #24980 by OSS
Uffilation,

I am really sorry, I think you don't get the point or I am missing something.
The footrest is designed from scratch (so is the rudder, steering system), further discussion is worthless because it is fact! But you are right, the "holder/rail which holds the foot rest" is an of-the-shelf component, so are some screws we use to hold other parts, even the bungees (elastic bands) are no woven by us but of-the-shelf. Yes, we also bought the rope/steering lines in Austria. And if worse comes to worse, we even bought the composites from suppliers.

This can go on and on and on...OCEAN is 100% Australian owned, the skis designed in Italy and we produce skis of highest quality in China - easy to read these facts on our website, facebook site, even in this forum.

Thanks!

New, innovative, different!

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #24982 by Uffilation
Hi OSS,
it seems you did not understand me or what I was trying to say, I did not state that nor did I post fotos, who cares about footrests that evolved more or less into the same design anyway and could stay that way for decades > I took that example from a previous poster trying to explain previous reactions and possible future reactions. Use it or not, be sensible or sensitive or defense about it, your choice, I posted in good faith.

Anyway, I want to apologize for my ignorant point of view as I just spent some time reading about the manufacturing situation in Australia. I was not aware into what diaspora it turned. Cost is one thing, but if even sourcing raw materials, tech and skills is an entry barrier for Innovators to "getting stuff 3d" it seems. My condolences.

Seems that I just wanted to believe that you ski design (incl. claimed performance) would have allowed for higher priced "boutique manufacture" in Australia. Really.

You got it done elsewhere, some competition will look at the skis open mouthed if they perfom as stated, 4 models at once in several lay-ups B) . so who gives, right?

Cheers and good success!
The following user(s) said Thank You: OSS

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6 years 1 month ago #24995 by AR_convert

arrive on the 25th Nov and leave on Sunday, the 29th Nov.


So are you driving with the skis?

Ascot club night is on the Wednesday night if you want to expose the skis to the flatwater crowd and it would give some of us a chance to see how they go on the flat too?

I'll send an email to see what your plans are while you are here.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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6 years 1 month ago #25054 by OSS
Our offer:

ORDER BEFORE 1st DECEMBER & SAVE UP TO $995*
(*our free carbon paddle offer valued at $495 combined with the $500 discount on ski orders; order must be placed with OCEAN before 1st December 2015 (valid within Australia only))

New, innovative, different!

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6 years 2 weeks ago - 6 years 2 weeks ago #25197 by OSS
Sorry for the late notice!

Here our planned demo days and times:
Wednesday - Ascot Kayak club around 4pm to 5pm (we will be coming straight from Sydney and try to be there as early as possible)
Thursday - 6am to 7am (and longer) at Sorrento SLSC
Friday - 6am to 7am (and longer) at Sorrento SLSC
Sunday - 6am to 7am at Sorrento SLSC

Pleas note: Unfortunately, the courier couldn't make it in time for a second delivery - we will only have 3 models to test, the OSS1, OSS2 and OSS3. If you wanted to test the OSS4, please come and test the OSS3, it is very stable!

Please contact us if you have any questions on 0431 911 558 (Mario) or 0433 304 654 (Ole)

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6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #25207 by AR_convert
My mini review.

I got to paddle the OSS1 and OSS2 at our club race night last night. (on the Swan river at Ascot)

The first thing you notice about both these ski is how stable they are. And for that reason my first impression was that it would be slow, but the GPS didn't lie, and I was amazed at how well they ran on the flat water, these are at least as quick as a V12 or Think Uno.

The buckets are really comfortable, and although the OSS2 was my favourite of the two skis for its slightly lower volume and shorter length, the OSS2 bucket may be just a bit tight for big hipped guys like me.

As the weather is hot and the water warm here I took the opportunity to jump out and get back in....first time, easy.

They look sensational and for the heavier pre production boats are really stiff and get off the line well.

I can see a lot of people will compare them to the Think Uno, due to the seemless construction, full length and little apparent rocker.

Always looking for the next boat :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: OSS, Uffilation

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6 years 1 week ago #25225 by OSS
A special thanks to all paddlers, their support, feedback and praises. We enjoyed our stay at Sorrento Beach, being surrounded by most of the world's top paddlers, getting their honest product feedback. A special thanks to Dawid Mocke who even took the time to test our skis right after finishing "The Doctor" race (26kms).

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6 years 1 week ago #25226 by Scode
Can you give us an insight into the feedback you received. Was it mainly positive? What did Dawid think? No doubt very interesting to get the insights from one of the worlds best paddlers.

Cheers and good luck with this new venture

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6 years 1 week ago #25227 by OSS
All very positive, one feedback can be found just here in this topic from AR_convert.
Feedback from Dawid - all very positive (bow works very well, very stable ski, fast ski, great quality) but can't disclose details as we discussed already an additional ski model!

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6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #25228 by Watto
I paddled OSS 1,2 and 3 on Thursday morning demo before the Doctor at Sorrento. Strong easterly meant no chop, no rough stuff, no down winding so comments here limited by that. As AR Covert identified first off these boats are really stable - however all I comment about is in flat water with 6'' wind chop.

Dimensions: OSS 1 is 6.495 x 43.5; OSS 2 at 6.245 x 4.30 and the OSS 3 at 6.245 x 4.60. On the day the 1 and 3 were the 15.5 kg layup and the OSS 2 the 12.5 kg.

All were easy to get in and out of, were I more disciplined would have done the AR Convert ditch and remount, however all cockpits seemed easy to remount. Deepest seemed to be the OSS 3 interestingly - Swordfish deep feel to it. Bucket back definitely more laid back than the others, not in a bad way, just different. All buckets I found very comfortable for the relatively short time I spent in them. Boats quite narrow but suited me 180 cm and 86 kg. My own three boats are Stellar SES, SEI and SR last two second Gen boats; all buckets on these great for me. OSS buckets not dissimilar though as mentioned the 3 seemed deeper.

Had my Garmin on and though only did basically one kilometre in each boat up and down close to shore (20 knot offshore, no leg leash, OSS Hullo Madagascar!), pushed out consistent 13.3 kmh in the OSS 1 and surprisingly the OSS 3 and 13.7 kmh in the OSS 2. Speed pretty irrelevant as wasn't time trialling just trying to paddle strongly over a short distance wind assisted, OSS 3 speed though interesting. All boats were nimble, leant and steered well on the flat.

Preference was the OSS 2 (one could ask why I was testing boats when happy with current three, but Mallory would have said as he would have with Everests 1, 2 and 3 'Because they were there'; that'll do me) it just felt responsive bit more nimble.. may well have been the lower weight.

Overall comments - love that reverse bow but bummer is you can't see it when you're paddling. Handles on the 3 as I understand it are to be moved. Didn't quite seem in the right place intuitively (sides of cockpit). Drainer - surely it won't live up there on far side of footplate - impossible to get at on the move. My only real concern with all of the boats (if I was to sell my SES I'd buy the OSS 2 or a 2nd Gen SEL) was the sticky-downy rudder. They are so vertical they seem forward-ruddery, and what weed magnets these would be. Cannot see any weed deflector working unless almost same depth as the rudders themselves which kind of defeats the point of a narrow rudder.

That's it for me. Thanks Mario for the opportunity - good bloke. Hope your time over here was enjoyable and your couple of paddles fun. Look forward to more on these boats.
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6 years 6 days ago #25229 by OSS
Hi Watto,

thanks for your feedback!
A "weed rudder" is now in production and will be on offer soon.

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