New Epic V5

5 years 4 months ago #25230 by rhainan
New Epic V5 was created by rhainan
More Rotomolded goodness from Epic



Very stable and in a garage friendly length.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer
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5 years 4 months ago #25231 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic New Epic V5
Cool to see more beginner skis, although at the L:W ratio, I wonder how much performance you get out of it? But that's cool I think. It can only help the sport to have skis that anyone can hop on and paddle, similar to the crappy rec kayaks that are so popular. Hopefully people buy these instead of a rec boat. Also, this has to be much safer (cant swamp and fill with water) than almost any rec kayak, so that a win.

the paddle cutouts look huge until you realize its a 24" ski. At least new people should be able to get a decent stroke angle in a beginner ski.

Also, thank you epic for having and continuing a number based boat naming system. Every time I hear about a new ski, how the hell do i know what is faster: a swordfish or a glide? a spark or a hawx? SR or SEI? at least with epic, it is intuitive that a v14 is faster than a v8. not so with any other brand. (I know I can just look it up, but i forget and have to do it over)

More info I pulled from epics stite because i was curious:
Length: 4.26 m (14 feet)
Width: 60 cm (23.6 inches)
Weight: 20.8 kg (46 lbs)
Carbon Fiber footboard system
Quick adjustment leg length system
Fully adjustable, highly efficient Epic bailer system
Stern, bow and side handles for easy handling
Water bottle holder
Leg leash holder
Capacity 127 kg (280 lbs)
USA MSRP - $1445

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
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5 years 4 months ago #25232 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic New Epic V5
The V7 is as stable as you need a beginners ski, this seems like it will be for those who don't want to be "Paddlers" in the true sense but want to have fun (recreation).

Was hoping that the next roto moulded boat coming from Epic would be more performance inspired.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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5 years 4 months ago #25233 by downwinda
Replied by downwinda on topic New Epic V5
Based on the fact that the top SUP paddlers average around 6 mph (9.65 kph) on 14 foot boards of similar width, I'd have to guess a top ski paddler would probably be able to average over 7 mph on a V-5. That is if they decide to paddle one.

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5 years 4 months ago #25234 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic New Epic V5
The paddling skill set of those reading this is probably very high. As we advance from high performance boats to even higher performance boats, I think we can lose sight of what exactly constitutes an entry level surf ski.

I learned a lot this summer introducing the V7 to my local paddlers. Turns out that the V7 is not stable enough for a good percentage of the people who came to me looking to enter the sport. Big guys (200 lb+) lacking core strength had a hard time with the V7 on placid water. Several rolled right into the water. Unthinkable, right? After all, we can do handstands on V8's in massive conditions. Well, they can't.

Now, we all know that with just a little patience, pretty much all of these guys would stabilize after a couple of hours of piddling around. A few of them persevered and did get comfortable. But, many of them gave up way before they got comfortable. The V5 is for them, not for us.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer
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5 years 4 months ago #25235 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic New Epic V5
Supposedly Epic is reserving the odd numbers for rotomolded kayaks. Thus, we may see more performance oriented plastic boats in the future called the "V9" and the "V11".

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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5 years 4 months ago #25236 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New Epic V5
Well said Rhainan.

It's part of the Dunning-Kruger Effect : "they [experts] may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others".

Filling in the fairly empty middle ground of the market (between basic SOTs and skis) is an excellent move. It provides a progression for those who would otherwise move to sea kayaks when stepping up from the more advanced SOTs and a certain proportion of those will hopefully move on to racier skis eventually.

Pity about the lack of colours, otherwise good work Epic - assuming it is priced sensibly.
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5 years 4 months ago #25237 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic New Epic V5

rhainan wrote: Now, we all know that with just a little patience, pretty much all of these guys would stabilize after a couple of hours of piddling around. A few of them persevered and did get comfortable. But, many of them gave up way before they got comfortable. The V5 is for them, not for us.


Ahhh, so you suggest it be used as a club boat or a hire fleet type boat B) .

If it were for anyone who was serious about paddling I'd imagine they would have to upgrade very quickly...and for the price not the ideal situation.

Sorry, but in my part of the world there are so many boats a lot cheaper that would perform the same function.

Perhaps they will be also popular as yacht tenders too :P

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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5 years 4 months ago #25238 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic New Epic V5

rhainan wrote: Now, we all know that with just a little patience, pretty much all of these guys would stabilize after a couple of hours of piddling around. A few of them persevered and did get comfortable. But, many of them gave up way before they got comfortable. The V5 is for them, not for us.


Ahhh, so you suggest it be used as a club boat or a hire fleet type boat B) .

If it were for anyone who was serious about paddling I'd imagine they would have to upgrade very quickly...and for the price not the ideal situation.

Sorry, but in my part of the world there are so many boats a lot cheaper that would perform the same function.

Perhaps they will be also popular as yacht tenders too :P

I get it that there are people out there that want the shiny white boat and are prepared to pay for the Epic brand and it will of course be much more comfortable than the cheaper options out there. I just dont see anyone in the paddling community buying them and maybe thats what I'm missing, they're not aimed at anyone who currently paddles :unsure:

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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5 years 4 months ago #25239 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic New Epic V5
I get what you are saying. If you are reading this forum it is most likely that you will not be buying a V5. But, the V5 is a real surfski and anybody who puts their butt in a boat and takes a stroke is a "real" paddler.

The V5 would be a perfect club or rental boat. Tough, stable and economical.

In North America I cannot think of any comparable, readily available SOT or Surfski that would offer the same performance/stability at the same price point. The Stellar S14S may be comparable in performance but would cost a lot more.

Necky came out with the Vector a couple of years ago. It was what they deemed a performance SOT. 14' long, 25" wide and 63 pounds. Street price is about $1300 with the rudder kit. Here is a customer review I pulled from ACK, a major online kayak dealer in the USA:

I wanted the lightest and fastest Sit On Top kayak and asked the folks at ACK. The Necky Vector14 is the one they suggested. Took my first ride in it yesterday and it met all my expectations. I thought both initial and secondary stability was very good, it tracks well and is really not that hard to turn, especially if edged. Also the seat was surprisingly comfortable and that's before I have even figured out how to adjust the back rest. I would say this boat is perfect if it were 10 lbs lighter, but you have to sacrifice something.

This is the person who was looking for a V5. He got the Necky and is now at an evolutionary dead end. If he wants to upgrade after a couple of seasons, Necky has nothing more to offer him. At $150 more the V5 is considerably lighter and will logically prepare him better to step up in performance through the Epic line.

I don't know what a yacht tender is. Is that an entry level yacht?

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #25240 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New Epic V5
A yacht tender is a watercraft used to transport people/supplies between a larger vessel and the shore.
Actually not a bad idea AR.
Boy, I'm curious how long the rudder/steering system would last in a rental situation. Sure would be a nuisance adjusting the foot pedals for each user. Definitely to complicated for the typical holiday weekend tourist that's never or rarely been in a kayak.
I could see kayak fisherman, looking for higher performance and the ability to travel farther offshore with more confidence, being interested. Also a nice step up from the typical SOT for performance touring. I think that many avid SOT paddlers (there are a lot around here) would find the rudder and cutaways at the catch a huge improvement.
Interestingly though, I doubt many of these types of paddlers would ever be inclined to learn about or improve their paddle technique and are not interested in graduating to higher performance surfskis. My obervation is these people are pretty content with there situation. For a lot of these people the price could be more of a deciding factor.

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5 years 4 months ago #25242 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New Epic V5

Fath2o wrote: AI doubt many of these types of paddlers would ever be inclined to learn about or improve their paddle technique and are not interested in graduating to higher performance surfskis.


Funny Fath, that's the second time in a couple of weeks I've seen a 'serious paddler' trot out the 'don't want to learn' line about SOT paddlers (the other one was a sea kayaker).

I got into paddling through kayakfishing and never saw myself ever racing kayaks...unintended consequences? I still spend as much time kayak fishing as I do ski paddling and spend enough time hanging around kayak fishing forums to know while plenty start out viewing the boat as simply a means to an end, most get the bug.

At present many get into sea kayaks, but the skis are certainly becoming an aspiration for a good number. It should speak volumes that the first place I read about the V5 was on a UK kayak fishing forum...

I've stood in on kayak club open days and the majorty of people who ask about joining are SOT paddlers. Hardly the action of people not interested in learning, though most don't join as they get the vibe from some of the clubs 'proper' paddlers that they won't be welcome.

Even if only 1% of SOT paddlers do 'want to learn' that would still expand the popularity of ski paddling by entire magnitudes: Let's be honest - this is the only english language forum dedicated to kayak racing that I've ever come across and you'd hardly call it busy...type 'kayak racing' or similar into amazon and you'd be lucky to get a couple of relevant results - it's hardly a popular sport. The equipment is a ig part of that - look at any widely popular sport that involves kit and it is usually simple to use, anyone who can ride can probably pedal the Tour de France winners bike...of course bike snobs still exist though... ;)
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5 years 4 months ago #25245 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New Epic V5
My opinion (for what it is worth) is simply based on my observation and conversations with several paddlers that I have been observing day after day and year after year. They continue to paddle the same type craft with what IMO is inefficient paddle technique (no forward stroke and all arm paddling). One of them uses a wood home made Greenland style paddle. They all appear to be very content and been paddling that way for years.
Again this is just my opinion, not a judgement, based on my observation of a few paddlers where I live.
If that makes me a paddling snob, so be it.
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5 years 4 months ago #25246 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic New Epic V5
The shorter length of the V5 will make storage quite a bit easier. Many of the urban paddlers I showed the V7 and V8 to this year were very interested but just did not have the garage space available to store an 18' kayak. I myself am moving to a more urban location next year and will be forced to store my kayaks outdoors. Luckily I will have a yard big enough to do that.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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5 years 4 months ago #25247 by kwolfe
Replied by kwolfe on topic New Epic V5
It's funny that this becomes a debate. If Epic can come out with some new models that might attract some otherwise non surfskiers, then more power to them.

If the buyer is serious about getting better at surfsking, then yes, they will outgrow it and create a used market for someone else. If not, they might just have fun paddling around with less than perfect form (god forbid). Neither of those things are wrong.

Some people do things just cause its fun. That's why I started.
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5 years 4 months ago #25248 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic New Epic V5
I agree that it is a silly question if this is good...of course an entry level ski like this is good for the market. If you're reading this forum, you're in the top 5% of obsessed paddlers. This boat is marketed to the lower 30%. We're living in a different world than the target market.

This will bring new people into the sport. It has to. It will increase public knowledge of what the heck a surfski is. I live on the ocean in Connecticut and the vast majority of non paddlers have no idea what a ski is. Even among paddlers, only 40% know what a ski is. A cheap, easy to paddle, easy to store ski is good for everyone. I'll never paddle a v5, but I recognise it is good for all of us.

Now I want to see a plastic V9 at around 20"x20' and a V11 at about 18"x21'. those are 'our' skis.

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
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5 years 4 months ago #25249 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New Epic V5

Fath2o wrote: My opinion (for what it is worth) is simply based on my observation and conversations with several paddlers that I have been observing day after day and year after year.


I've no doubt that you're right and there is quite a percentage who are happy with their basic skills. But just as the small world of ski paddling has plenty of outlooks and opinions, the worlds of SOTs, kayakfishing or just paddling in general are massively broad churches.

Just get a bit bored of the beating on SOT paddlers by 'proper' paddlers drawing arbitrary lines in the sand. I was surprised at your opinion after you seemed to be pretty positive about the V6 on the video thread and the difference between the V6 and V5 (or even my 15'x23" glass fishing ski) is very slight. :)

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5 years 4 months ago #25253 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic New Epic V5

Spacehopper wrote:

Fath2o wrote: My opinion (for what it is worth) is simply based on my observation and conversations with several paddlers that I have been observing day after day and year after year.


I've no doubt that you're right and there is quite a percentage who are happy with their basic skills. But just as the small world of ski paddling has plenty of outlooks and opinions, the worlds of SOTs, kayakfishing or just paddling in general are massively broad churches.

Just get a bit bored of the beating on SOT paddlers by 'proper' paddlers drawing arbitrary lines in the sand.


This forum has a racing culture, every ski that is mentioned here is generally judged on either it's racing credentials or how it might enable those who are still developing to race better. So when something that is clearly not aimed at racing is brought to our attention here it is through those same racing goggles we are viewing it. Put it on a kayak fishing forum or a kayak photography forum and I'd suggest the conversation would go much differently. It's not wrong, its just how it is.....and I'll stick my hand up as a snob :P

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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5 years 4 months ago #25254 by TaffyMick
Replied by TaffyMick on topic New Epic V5
[/quote]

This forum has a racing culture, every ski that is mentioned here is generally judged on either it's racing credentials or how it might enable those who are still developing to race better. So when something that is clearly not aimed at racing is brought to our attention here it is through those same racing goggles we are viewing it. Put it on a kayak fishing forum or a kayak photography forum and I'd suggest the conversation would go much differently. It's not wrong, its just how it is.....and I'll stick my hand up as a snob :P[/quote]

Well that stuffs me up then. Have a 2015 Stellar SR surfski. Marathon race a Sladecraft SLR Long Rec multi sport race kayak. Also have a Mirage 580 Sea Kayak and a Hobie mirage drive fishing kayak. :P :lol: :lol:

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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5 years 4 months ago #25258 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New Epic V5
A post of two parts to (maybe) beat the spam controls :whistle:

AR_convert wrote:

Spacehopper wrote:

Fath2o wrote: clearly not aimed at racing


Ok...so define what is a racing kayak. Not in opinions, but in actual measurements - length/beam ratio, weight etc.

As usual - taking an example from what I've spent much of the rest of my life doing:

This is a racing dinghy:

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