UG! A V- ??????

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6 years 6 months ago #25262 by Joseph
UG! A V- ?????? was created by Joseph
G' Day,
When we water down the sport it will no longer be a sport, You can buy a 45lb Tupper Tub for 1/2 the price and at least it is not called a Surf Ski. were may I ask is the sport we loved going on main land U.S. and other places in the world were people think they want to paddle Surf Ski? the sport and the learning curve is to long for most today so they buy a. losing the word very Loose Surf Ski for swamp and pond paddling Why? The Surf Ski only comes into its own on Open Water, there are many nicer Faster Paddle and sailing toys sold the do and go faster than a ski on any flat thing.
So Sad to see a sport going to hell other than Oz Land and S. Africa, wheeneeeeeee ! world is becoming sister world and I am speaking about Men? and Not Downing you Lady's, I Love you all and you should be wearing the pants and taking over Men's world because few are around any longer how san we be.
Cheers Joseph

Joseph

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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #25263 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic UG! A V- ??????
I think you're saying the new V5 is diluting the meaning of surf ski?

I think you're completely wrong. an (imaginary) epic V1 that was 12'x28" would still be good for the sport. You dont need a formula 1 car to race. You can race a stock class corvette, or in the Chump Car series ($2000 investment limit). My point is, F1 is cool if you have connections and $100,000,000. Chump car is cool if you have $2000 and the desire to race.

More people in the sport is good, however they come. Paddle sports are dying because of the cost of entry. Why do you think $500 SUP's and $300 plastic bathtub kayaks are so popular? (and they're everywhere!). Its because they're cheap and approachable.

Although skis perform at their peak in 30kt wind and 10' fast moving swell, I can sure have a lot of fun on my local inland lake... It doesnt make a v12 less of a v12 becvause you paddle it on flatish water.

Anyways, I say a larger market can only help us all. Someone in the v5 thread made a great comparison between dinghy sailing and the americas cup. We need both. We're not all experts, have the time to be, have the desire to be, or have the money to be one. I cont understand why anyone wouldnt be excited about entry level Skis. I hope epic sells the hell out of them. Better those than the plastic bathtubs that are so common. Also, if they sell enough plastic 'beginner' boats, maybe they can lower their prices on performance composite skis (hint hint epic).

Last thought: if Epic released an (imaginary) V11 plastic boat that was 21'x17" at the same time as the V5, would we be having this conversation? We (the racing obsessed) will get ours eventually. In the mean time, hopefully a few new people join the sport.

Currently paddling a Kai Wa'a Vega Flex in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10g1, Stellar SRg1, Fenn XTg1, Swordfish S
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
Last edit: 6 years 6 months ago by MCImes.

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6 years 6 months ago #25264 by photofr
Replied by photofr on topic UG! A V- ??????
There are couple of positive points when we introduce more stable, entry level crafts to the mass:
More people start paddling.
Some new paddler take it somewhat seriously and actually get in shape.
A smaller percentage take on the sport to the next level, and eventually get into a surfski.

Without the easy, entry level crafts that "resemble" surfskis, we would have a hard time getting new paddlers onto skis. Let's face it, we need more people; we are all getting OLD :)

Speaking of SUP, there's a huge advantage right now, for the surfski community:
Stand Up Paddle boards designed for any sort of speed are in excess of $4000 (that's USD).
(mind you, those SUP do not even come with a rudder).

The choice will be somewhat easier for 2016.
If you want to go faster on water, get a ski.
If you want to save money and go reasonably fast, get a 48 to 58 cm wide ski.

You know, I wish everyone was eager to learn, in shape, more active, willing to put in the time to learn progression on a surfski… the facts are: it's not happening - more men give up early on. The only solution that seems to work is to make the sport more accessible. Right or wrong, that's where we are with it all (yeah, it sucks, but so does life sometimes)

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)
The following user(s) said Thank You: MCImes

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6 years 6 months ago #25265 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic UG! A V- ??????
Watering down the sport? Over the last three years both Epic and Stellar have completely revamped their elite product line ups to be faster and more agile. The Epic V14 GT is about as far on the other side of the spectrum from the V5 as is possible. Didn't Clint Robinson just post about revamping the V12 in a new "downwind" addition? If anything, it seems that the elite paddler is being catered to far out of proportion to their level of actual sales.

I think Joseph is just trolling. Those are some pretty silly statements.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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6 years 6 months ago #25266 by Flowmaster
Replied by Flowmaster on topic UG! A V- ??????
It's not how you enter the water, wherever that is,it's all about having fun, being a surfer for a looong time, I use almost everything boats,windsurf gear, shortboards,longboards, sup and even bodyboards in a huge thumping shorebreak, I don't wanna think in boundaries

I posted a vid. from my V8 , me ,having fun on a lake, who cares, just had a great time.

It would have been possible in my Stellar , but more technical, so what ?

...ooooO...................
...(.......)......Ooooo....
....\.....(.......(.......).....
.....\.__)........)...../.....
...................(__./......
JUST LEAVE FOOTPRINTS

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6 years 6 months ago #25268 by Ranga
Replied by Ranga on topic UG! A V- ??????
Not sure if anyone complaining about entry level ski have actually paddled them!
Do yourself a favour and go out and paddle one.
I have and it is the most fun you will have on a ski. I have raced the V8 on numerous occasions and never gone below 14km/hr showing up all the RACING skis with their pilots wobbling their way to the finish.
I have seen guys instantaneously fall over on a V8 not even one stroke, HOW is that possible? Well it is, on dead flat water. He was coming from another competitive water sport where he could paddle, but according to you he must just give up and leave ski paddling and stick to what he can do?
As been mentioned before all these entry level skis create a very good aftermarket when paddlers evolve onto narrower faster skis, and then back for a lot of them, it is very good for the industry.
As they say, "don`t knock it before you try it".

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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #25269 by photofr
Replied by photofr on topic UG! A V- ??????
One of the thing that's rarely mentioned is safety. Before getting into that, let's look at some facts:
People want instant success, even on a surfski.
If we do not get them on a wider surfski, there's a chance that they will not latch on the sport.
If they do not go for a wider surfski, we may for ever loose them to a decked kayak.

Having said this, the introduction of V6, V7, and now the V5 (and similar) will draw more people who aren't really watermen. It's very important to realize this, because:
- we want more people in our sport
- we most certainly do not want more accidents

I believe that solutions are easy, but must not be overlooked while we introduce "easier crafts". Part of the solution will be to EDUCATE, to educate people who are given a "false" sense of stability / safety. Education should be our focus, and it can start with raising the price of a V5 by $90, and to include surfski safety classes with every sale.

Heck, a boat, a paddle, and a "how to" and safety class, still for a fraction of the cost of a V10.

I guess what I am trying to say is: GREAT for the welcoming aspect… GREAT for getting more people into the sport… CAREFUL what we wish for.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)
Last edit: 6 years 6 months ago by photofr.

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6 years 6 months ago #25271 by leebee
Replied by leebee on topic UG! A V- ??????
I'll go with enjoyment being the criteria. I am almost 73 and really annoyed I recently could not buy a Stellar SEI as my hip bones are too wide to fit and then had to "compromise" by buying the new SR model. After complaining for a while I could not get into the 0.8" narrower ski, I started to realize I must have forgotten it was 45+ years ago when I was a competitive paddler. Most of us really buy a ski because we dislike the issues of a closed kayak and want to go fast relative to what we can do in any another boat. That said a lot of folks do not have the balance for a 17" ski, even some in very good shape, and a lot younger than me. If folks buy a simple, inexpensive entry level ski, and enjoy it, they can progress, but if not they can still enjoy their boat.

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6 years 6 months ago #25273 by TaffyMick
Replied by TaffyMick on topic UG! A V- ??????
When I transitioned from sea kayaks to surf skis, about the only true so called 'beginner' ski was the Fenn XT (double foot well model). First time I tried that in Rose Bay, Sydney I got to know the local octopodes, crustaceans and fish population very well. Best I could manage in that session were a dozen strokes without tipping out. Several weeks later tried an early model Steller SR in the same location. Persevered for a couple of hours and got to know some of the same marine life on a first name basis. Got a little bit despondent about this surfski lark. However, I also purchased a South African Stealth Profisha 575 fishing ski, kayak fishing being another passion. Pretty solid boat and wider than most skis with a rounded hull. Learned to catch runs on that boat and took it out in lots of testing water.

Couple of years later, out came the Fenn Bluefin, a true beginners boat that I felt at one with and learned how to become a better paddler. SInce then have graduated to a number of intermediate boats from Epic (V10S), Fenn (Swordfish) Stellar (SEI) and have now consolidated on the one ski - 2015 Stellar SR (Excel).

Ok, I am never going to become an elite surfski paddler as I also like flat water racing (marathons) and gasp...recreational paddling. More so, that a few days ago I have gone back to my roots and bought a second hand 5.8m expedition sea kayak.

So what is the purpose of this diatribe? Simple... if I had access to a V7 (or a V5) several years ago with it's inherent stability and fun factor in swell, there is little doubt in my mind that I would have become a much better surfski paddler who is technically correct, confidant, comfortable and safe in the various environments that I paddle in in a much shorter time frame.

Oscar's matnra of "stability before ability" rings constantly in my mind. My path to becoming a semi-competent surfski paddler has been a long and 'expensive' one. Just wished these boats were available when I started off as they could have saved me a lot of angst, grief and money!!!

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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6 years 6 months ago #25279 by topswimmer
Replied by topswimmer on topic UG! A V- ??????
sounds to me from some of the comments posted recently about entry level ski's that there is a danger of surfski'ing becoming an elitist sport.
Unfortunately even worldwide this is still a minority sport & will stay that way unless more people are encouraged to participate!!!!
Bring on the Epic V3.

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