New V8 Pro out

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6 years 2 months ago #25948 by andis
New V8 Pro out was created by andis
Check out Epic's website. 580x50cm. Good move Epic... An advanced beginner boat was missing.
I am still looking forward to testing the new Nelo 520 though...

Epic V7, Fenn Bluefin, Epic V10S
Huge fun!

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6 years 2 months ago #25949 by Cryder
Replied by Cryder on topic New V8 Pro out
Here is a link to the article.

www.epickayaks.com/article/article/v8-pro

Looks like a great ski, will have one of these in available for demo soon in Bellingham.

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6 years 2 months ago #25950 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New V8 Pro out
Seems a strange dilution (and potentially name confusion). Suspect anyone who can paddle a V8 ok would be just fine in a 2nd gen V10S if they want to go faster.

Will be interesting to see what happens, but wonder if Epic's marketing really told them there was a demand there or they just decided to plug a perceived gap?

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6 years 2 months ago #25951 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic New V8 Pro out
Got to love Epic for catering for everyone ;) It is optimized to fit paddlers from 4'10" (147cm) to 6'5" (196 cm) in height.

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6 years 2 months ago #25952 by andis
Replied by andis on topic New V8 Pro out
I read somewhere that it is a lower volume boat than the v8 or the v10s and caters for the lighter paddler. The slim bow and low hump in the pictures could confirm that.
If that is indeed the case, epic's product positioning may be way more strategic than what meets the eye; advanced begginner boats are few in the market, but beginner boats for female (or just smaller) paddlers are even more scarce...

Epic V7, Fenn Bluefin, Epic V10S
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6 years 2 months ago #25953 by JonathanC
Replied by JonathanC on topic New V8 Pro out
I have been paddling this new boat over the last few days in Tarifa, in fact that's my bald mug in the opening photo of the Epic page. I weigh 65kg and found it to be fast and responsive in downwind surf. I've never experienced the level of reactivity to leaning forward and back while on a wave that this boat allows.

Rented an Ultra V10Sport on Maui last year for a month and while it's very difficult to compare experiences in different water the V8 Pro feels very slightly tippier than the current V10S but way more fun. I didn't pad out the sides of the V8 Pro at all, I have quite narrow hips and I'm sure some padding would to some extent take away the very slight feel of initial primary instability that I noticed. I have to pad out the V10s and the V10 to get my hips anywhere close to the sides of the seat. Had a couple of weeks with an Ultra V10 two years ago and it just felt huge to me, prefer the V10s but would choose the V8 Pro over the V10s in a heartbeat.

Seat of the pants feel is that it has significantly less volume than the current gen V10s, the older V10s (which I own) even feels less corky than my Excel Stellar SES. The SES is too tippy for me for downwinding, it's always felt like it had too much volume for my weight (sounds crazy I know) and seems to sit very high in the water. I have moments of brilliance downwinding in the SES but spend too much energy, mental and physical worrying about staying upright.

I was all set to get a new Stellar SR as my go to, any conditions, improve my technique downwind boat but having the opportunity to paddle the V8 Pro has certainly confused me! Wish they were a bit cheaper in oz.
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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #25955 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out
Wow! This ski looks like it could an awesome rough water downwind machine. Although the lack of volume may be a problem for us heavier blokes? Since I rarely race and don't have a gps ( speed not a concern) this ski looks very appealing. Appears to have a little more rocker than V10-S.

Spacehopper said:

"Seems a strange dilution (and potentially name confusion). Suspect anyone who can paddle a V8 ok would be just fine in a 2nd gen V10S if they want to go faster."

The statement about the V10S being faster is intriguing.
I recently did a 13 km downwind paddle (while dealing with some serious fatigue issues in confused seas ~2m wind to 20 knots) with a mate on a new V10S and another on a Swordfish. I was paddling my old 14.5 kg XT that has the stigma of being a terribly slow boat. At 55 I also have something like 10 - 20 years on these guys, but, I have a lot more time in the bucket.
Basically, I kicked these guys asses. I must have stopped and waited or doubled back about seven times. I think I could have easily beat them by 30 minutes or so.
I'm just saying that the speed of a surfski/watercraft is probably more relevent to whose piloting it than how "fast" it is.
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Fath2o.

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6 years 1 month ago #25956 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out

Fath2o wrote: Wow! This ski looks like it could an awesome rough water downwind machine. Although the lack of volume may be a problem for us heavier blokes? Since I rarely race and don't have a gps ( speed not a concern) this ski looks very appealing. Appears to have a little more rocker than V10-S.

Spacehopper said:

"Seems a strange dilution (and potentially name confusion). Suspect anyone who can paddle a V8 ok would be just fine in a 2nd gen V10S if they want to go faster."

The statement about the V10S being faster is intriguing.
I recently did a 13 km downwind paddle (while dealing with some serious fatigue issues in confused seas ~2m, wind to 20 knots) with a mate on a new V10S and another on a Swordfish. I was paddling my old 14.5 kg XT that has the stigma of being a terribly slow boat. At 55 I also have something like 10 - 20 years on these guys, but, I have a lot more time in the bucket.
Basically, I kicked these guys asses. I must have stopped and waited or doubled back about seven times. I think I could have easily beat them by 30 minutes or so.
I'm just saying that the speed of a surfski/watercraft is probably more relevent to whose piloting it than how "fast" it is.

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6 years 1 month ago #25957 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out

Fath2o wrote:

Fath2o wrote: Wow! This ski looks like it could be an awesome rough water downwind machine. Although the lack of volume may be a problem for us heavier blokes? Since I rarely race and don't have a gps ( speed not a concern) this ski looks very appealing. Appears to have a little more rocker than V10-S.

Spacehopper said:

"Seems a strange dilution (and potentially name confusion). Suspect anyone who can paddle a V8 ok would be just fine in a 2nd gen V10S if they want to go faster."

The statement about the V10S being faster is intriguing.
I recently did a 13 km downwind paddle (while dealing with some serious fatigue issues in confused seas ~2m, wind to 20 knots) with a mate on a new V10S and another on a Swordfish. I was paddling my old 14.5 kg XT that has the stigma of being a terribly slow boat. At 55 I also have something like 10 - 20 years on these guys, but, I have a lot more time in the bucket.
Basically, I kicked these guys asses. I must have stopped and waited or doubled back about seven times. I think I could have easily beat them by 30 minutes or so.
I'm just saying that the speed of a surfski/watercraft is probably more relevent to whose piloting it than how "fast" it is.

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6 years 1 month ago #25958 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out
Sorry about that triple post, just trying to correct grammar/spelling. :unsure:

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6 years 1 month ago #25959 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic New V8 Pro out
I would say there is plenty of volume for the bigger blokes when you look at the "optimal size its designed" for and the weight of each layup compares to the longer narrower skis in the Epic range.

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6 years 1 month ago #25960 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out
When I mention the concern over,"lack of volume" in a surfski
I am envisioning dropping into a 4+ meter trough, burying the nose and not having enough volume in the nose to recover or even worse, pitch poling and ending up stranded with a broken ski. The add for the ski kind of implies that it is for lighter/smaller paddlers too. Also the depth of the V8Pro is 32cm vs 33cm for the V10S that is a foot longer.
All just relative to how and where you paddle.

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6 years 1 month ago #25964 by Spacehopper
Replied by Spacehopper on topic New V8 Pro out

Fath2o wrote: The statement about the V10S being faster is intriguing.

I'm just saying that the speed of a surfski/watercraft is probably more relevent to whose piloting it than how "fast" it is.


There you go Fath, I quoted it again for you! ;)

I completely agree with your point about ability - however given identical ability/physique/fitness there will be a difference in the flat/small conditions - quite a marked one between the original V8 (see, the confusion has already started - were you referring to the old V8 or the Pro in your post....?) and the V10S having paddled both back to back last year.

If anything my point was more about stability - for somebody looking to step up from the V8 the V10S is hardly any more difficult.

If it's a genuine small persons boat at the beginner end then that makes much more sense. The ski market always seems a bit bizarre in that way - the tiny number of paddlers who can paddle the elite boats have lots of size options but most brand's ranges have a one-size-fits-all approach for beginners. Where one suspects the majority of female and young paddlers are. But then, why not a V8L with same length as the original? Or a completely new name for what sounds like a markedly different boat?
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6 years 1 month ago #25966 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic New V8 Pro out
Spacehopper, Yeah I think your right about the V8 and the V8Pro pretty much being two very different boats.
The guy I did the downwind with on the V10s is a bit wobbly in what I would consider moderate conditions. In spite of that, he was able to win a local calm ocean race when he first got the ski.
The new V8Pro sure looks like it would be a ton of fun downwind with great speed and stability. Looks like it has a relatively narrow catch too! If you can consistently link runs - How much faster can you go?
If money was no object I'd probably add one to my quiver, guess I should probably try one first.
Oh yeah sorry about the messy posts.

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #25971 by Cryder
Replied by Cryder on topic New V8 Pro out
We are more or less trained to equate the maximum beam of a ski with it's potential for speed, but the distribution of volume has a huge impact on it's handling if you are a lighter paddler. For big guys like me, low volume doesn't really matter as long as it floats (to a certain degree). High volume seems to really impact light / small paddlers.

I am on the bigger end of the spectrum of paddlers: 6'3" x 230 pounds (190.5 cm x 104kg), and I paddle a decidedly low volume ski because it's handling characteristics and ergonomic configuration. Narrow catch, narrow waterline, high seat, less bow slap going upwind, and less volume to make punching through and over waves going downwind. All of those ad up for a big advantage for me, but the downwind aspect of a low volume ski is amazing. The ski sit's (pictured below, and I am on a doubles ski's wash) lower in the water by about .25" than when a friend weighing 145 pounds paddled it. I get LOT of upside with minimal downside.



But for an intermediate or even an advanced paddler that is lighter weight or small framed, a 21'+ ski has tremendous windage and a lot of waterline baggage without much upside, especially when heading out beam to start a downwind run. For example when the nose of the ski reaches over the top of an oncoming quartering wave and the wind grabs, look out... Not to mention a seat designed for a gorilla like me. The options for this paddler are higher-volume stable ski's (v10s, V8) or low volume advanced and elite ski's (aka Nelo 560, V10L & V14 etc.). Now they have a go-to low-volume and stable intermediate ski that has many of the upsides of an elite ski. Pretty smart idea in my highly biased opinion. ;)
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Cryder.
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6 years 1 month ago #25973 by kwhatmough
Replied by kwhatmough on topic New V8 Pro out
To me, this sounds like a great boat. The 19' length would make it easy to store and transport. Anything longer wouldn't fit in my garage. The stability should be about right for the range of conditions that I paddle in. The side handles are a bonus. And best of all, I might actually fit in the boat! (6'5" and thin)

New boat, same old engine.

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #25978 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic New V8 Pro out
Great great great ... if a lower volume V8 + narrower + ... I'd agree with spacehopper, a V8L type boat would be nice, but I wonder ... V8 pro suits paddlers up to 125kg ... low volume?
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Uffilation.

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6 years 1 month ago #25981 by rhainan
Replied by rhainan on topic New V8 Pro out
This new boat is not a V8L. I can't remember the exact specifications but Greg Barton mentioned that the V8PRO volume is only slightly less than the standard V8.

Epic feels that there is a large enough group of open water paddlers that want to step up from the V8 but are very uncomfortable on the V10S.

Its not called a V9 because odd numbers are reserved for rotomolded boats.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer
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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #25982 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic New V8 Pro out
Thanks rhainan, the info I needed.

If there are more Epic dealers reading this site,
what is your experience/estimation on the size of the group
of female/lighter male/youth beginner paddlers vs. the group of male 1,90m/120kg beginner paddlers?

Would you see are market for a V8L type boat?

One size for beginners might "fit" all, ... but a too corky ski does not suit all, imo.
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Uffilation.

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6 years 1 month ago - 6 years 1 month ago #25988 by JonathanC
Replied by JonathanC on topic New V8 Pro out

rhainan wrote: This new boat is not a V8L. I can't remember the exact specifications but Greg Barton mentioned that the V8PRO volume is only slightly less than the standard V8.

Epic feels that there is a large enough group of open water paddlers that want to step up from the V8 but are very uncomfortable on the V10S.

Its not called a V9 because odd numbers are reserved for rotomolded boats.


Felt Like a much smaller boat than a V8 to me and actually very slightly less stable than a V10s. But at 65kg in light to moderate fairly choppy downwind conditions, much more alive and fun than either the V8 or V10S. I feel totally comfortable in my first gen V10s, go out in choppy windy wild conditions in the dark early morning, can't even remember the last time I fell out or even thought about stability paddling it, like a comfortable old boot!

Would be interesting to know volume displacement of different boats with different weight paddlers in them. Surely that is actually what matters rather than the total hull volume.

Rented a V10L Ultra for a couple of weeks and for me that boat felt very settled, as if it was 'in' the water. Compared to my SES which always feels a little like it's sitting 'on top' of the water. If as Greg B said, the volume of the V8Pro is only slightly less than the V8 that might explain why it doesn't feel more stable to me than a V10S, at 65kg compared to a 120kg paddler, there may not be all that much of the boat in the water.

Despite the V10L being my ideal boat on paper I'm sure that in rougher more disorganised downwind conditions I would be faster and have more fun in the V8 Pro, of course skill level is a huge factor there as well. No idea if that is due to width, volume distribution, hull shape, length, windage etc., probably a subtle blend of all those factors. At my weight and skill a V10L and a V8Pro would probably be an excellent quiver. Because I paddle in enormously varied conditions, from flat water to excellent downwind to very wild, windy disorganised rebound chop can't believe that there is one perfect boat that could do it all and still be fun....have no interest in racing or beating anyone, it's all about fun :lol:
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by JonathanC.
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