Go Big or Go Home......V8 to V14

3 years 11 months ago #27517 by Aurelius
My goal this morning was to work on three things RedBack mentioned in a previous post:

1. Aim for a steeper angle of entry at the catch
2. Keep the sweep of my top hand closer to horizontal
3. Get the paddle blades fully submerged

It didn't sound like it would be that difficult, but doing all three simultaneously proved trickier than I'd imagined. There are only a few times here where I can get a decent approximation of what seasoned paddlers do without having to think about it. This will definitely take lots more practice. :dry:

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3 years 11 months ago #27520 by kwolfe
Aurelius,
Looks like you're making some good progress. I'm a little fortunate in my body mechanics naturally want me to use a steep angle. One quick note, your left blade is making a plunk sound many times at the catch. If you watch you left hand, it starts to drop and take the stroke before you right hand has finished the exit. It think this is causing that sound.

I got a chance to do a little more V14 filming. This day was at one of my local lake and it was really windy which messed with me a bit. Not only did it create rhythmic side chop ( I hate) but it also would grab at the paddle blades. Anyway, I got in 3 miles before I decided to go grab my OC1 and grind out more miles. The first few seconds of the video I showed to show the wind. The next minute is to show my progress and the last two clips show a couple of braces.

I tried and get some video of me on the V8 but apparently it didn't record! :angry:

Windy day

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3 years 11 months ago #27522 by Kocho
Rough day, huh ;) ?

As much as I enjoy the narrow catch and effortless glide of boats like this, I've been getting lazy lately and prefer a bit more stability, so I can catch waves and enjoy rougher conditions. I've been going out pretty much only on bumpier days and almost don't do truly flat water anymore. But if I had a flat-water only boat to enjoy the way you are, I can see how it would be a good thing...

kwolfe wrote: I got a chance to do a little more V14 filming. This day was at one of my local lake and it was really windy which messed with me a bit. Not only did it create rhythmic side chop ( I hate) but it also would grab at the paddle blades. Anyway, I got in 3 miles before I decided to go grab my OC1 and grind out more miles. The first few seconds of the video I showed to show the wind. The next minute is to show my progress and the last two clips show a couple of braces.
Windy day

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3 years 11 months ago #27523 by kwolfe
I know I know. Not rough compared to what some of you deal with. I actually took footage of when I crossed the lake and was closer to the tree line which killed much of the chop. In the middle of the lake it was only about 1ft but it was coming directly from the side short steep and right after one another.

The more comfortable I get on this ski, the more I am leaning toward a v10. Maybe a 10 sport for my final boat. I wish I could jump on a V10 for a good 10k and see how I compare. I can imagine staying around 7.5 mph would not be difficult at all when compared to my V14 and V8 speeds.

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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #27524 by Uffilation
kwolfe,
I posted those "higher elbow paddling in flatter conditions" vids 'cause that's the condition I thought you mainly paddle in. I know, that low elbow and close to body is recommended for stability in open ocean + dw. However, I simply can't paddle like this if it's flat. Not that I am fast, though.

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3 years 11 months ago #27526 by Aurelius

kwolfe wrote: Aurelius,
Looks like you're making some good progress. I'm a little fortunate in my body mechanics naturally want me to use a steep angle. One quick note, your left blade is making a plunk sound many times at the catch. If you watch you left hand, it starts to drop and take the stroke before you right hand has finished the exit. It think this is causing that sound.


I'm not sure what was causing that, but today I changed my stroke quite a bit. I noticed when replaying my last video at 1/4 speed that at times my paddle wasn't fully submerged until nearly half the stroke had been completed. Comparing that to slow motion videos of elite paddlers, I noticed that their paddles are fully submerged by the time the blade passes their feet. So today I decided to work on that. First, I departed from my usual straight upright position and leaned forward slightly. Second, I stretched my body out as far as I could to get the blade in the water sooner. Third, I concentrated on really pushing the blade down into the water at the catch. It made a huge difference, causing much more "pull" at the catch and a corresponding speed increase of about 0.3 mph. Unfortunately all those little changes in posture ruined my form, which is why I'm not going to bother uploading the video until I can regain it. :S

I got a chance to do a little more V14 filming. This day was at one of my local lake and it was really windy which messed with me a bit. Not only did it create rhythmic side chop ( I hate) but it also would grab at the paddle blades. Anyway, I got in 3 miles before I decided to go grab my OC1 and grind out more miles. The first few seconds of the video I showed to show the wind. The next minute is to show my progress and the last two clips show a couple of braces.


Your form looks really good, which why I'm surprised at how unstable the ski looked. It's a shame you're not local, else I'd let you try my Stellar SEL. It's so much more stable than the V14 that despite its aggressive dimensions, I've never had to employ a single bracing stroke to keep it upright.

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3 years 11 months ago #27527 by Aurelius

kwolfe wrote: The more comfortable I get on this ski, the more I am leaning toward a v10. Maybe a 10 sport for my final boat. I wish I could jump on a V10 for a good 10k and see how I compare. I can imagine staying around 7.5 mph would not be difficult at all when compared to my V14 and V8 speeds.


I'm not sure about the V10, but they say the V10 Sport is very close in performance and stability to my former Stellar SR. Since I could keep the SR going at just over 7 mph, someone with your upper body development shouldn't have any trouble staying at 7.5 mph. You might even be able to manage 8.0 mph, which I could only do for a short time before getting tired.

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3 years 11 months ago #27605 by Aurelius
With temperatures dropping fast, I decided to switch from the V7 to the SEL to get as much practice in before the water gets too cold.

Yesterday's outing on the SEL revealed some interesting things. Despite the fact that its been weeks since I paddled the SEL, my balance seems to have improved dramatically. Though I still can't get full rotation under maximum power, the side to side rolling with each paddle stroke was almost gone. There were a few times when I got sloppy and caused the hull to rock, but for the most part I managed to keep it level. I'd say that I'm almost as well balanced in the SEL now as I was in my SR. Now it's just a matter of getting the miles in.

The hull efficiency of the SEL is in another league compared to my V7. Not only can I get up to speed much faster, but I'm averaging about 1 mph more when cruising along in the SEL at the same power level. Once my balance improves, I'll be able to put much more power behind each paddle stroke, which will only increase the SEL's advantage.

There are always one or two power boats creating waves in the area, and I've gotten used to a considerable amount of bow slap when cutting through them in my V7. Not so with the SEL, which slices through the waves as if they weren't even there!

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3 years 11 months ago #27609 by red_pepper
It sounds like you're doing well in getting up to speed (so to speak) in the SEL! I'm convinced that balance in a surf ski is pretty much like balance on a bike; you never really seem to forget. Coming back after a few months off over winter I typically find my balance is pretty much as it was when I left off.

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3 years 11 months ago #27611 by Aurelius

red_pepper wrote: It sounds like you're doing well in getting up to speed (so to speak) in the SEL! I'm convinced that balance in a surf ski is pretty much like balance on a bike; you never really seem to forget. Coming back after a few months off over winter I typically find my balance is pretty much as it was when I left off.


That's true, but what surprised me isn't that my balance was as good as it was a couple of weeks ago, but that it's much BETTER than it was then, despite the fact that I haven't been practicing in the SEL. :S

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3 years 11 months ago #27612 by red_pepper
Sometimes it's like working out any other muscle group: after tearing down your muscles with lots of work-outs, resting those muscles will allow them to rebuild and come back stronger than before. I suspect you have something similar happening with your balance muscles. Plus you maybe more confident/relaxed.

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3 years 11 months ago #27614 by kwolfe
I truly believe that paddling my V14 makes my form better as it doesn't tolerate imperfections so when I'm in it, I am constantly given feedback on every stroke.

As far as water temps, I don't feel bad for you in the slightest. I got out before work earlier this week at a balmy 33 degrees. The hull was iced over by the time I was done. The V14 is about to be put away until spring soon but I'll keep at it with the V8 and my OC1.

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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #27615 by RedBack
You have my unwavering respect!

You guys who get out there with water temperatures like that, prove you're tough/brave/crazy! (Pick your adjective.)

Where I live the water temperature almost (but not quite) dropped below 70deg last winter. Brrrr...

I never going to complain again! :)

This is my local beach in the middle of last winter...

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3 years 11 months ago #27616 by Aurelius
None of that cold water paddling for me! I risk hypothermia when it's less than 70F. :laugh:

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3 years 11 months ago #27618 by Hiro
You guys keep taking about "winter"...
What is that thing ?

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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #27619 by Uffilation
"You guys keep taking about "winter"...
What is that thing ? "

It's that thing that let's you choose between paddling or skiing or snow boarding or making a snow man or igloo with the kids or go ski hiking/touring in the mountains, etc.
It's also that thing that helps to distinguish between seasons LOL.
Paddling on the water while is snows? "Cool".
Paddling when it really freezes, not so cool though.

or alternatively ... as our "local" Fenn dealer does it ...

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3 years 11 months ago #27620 by kwolfe
Please take this the right way but i HATE you warm weather people!! :laugh:

I have to admit that the older I get, the more I really dislike the cold. Don't get me wrong, I like sledding with my boys but I would love if it would snow 4 times, stay 3 days and then go back to 70 plus degrees.

I snowboarded for years I'd rather be on the water now. Bring on Spring!!

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3 years 11 months ago #27622 by red_pepper
Cold weather is good for you! It toughens you up and makes you cross-train by taking up cross-country skiing after the water turns solid. :)

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3 years 11 months ago #27623 by SkiFun
A perfect dry suit is not sufficient enough ?



The principal challenge of paddling in Lake Ontario in winter is not so much the water temperature per se, but the risk of hitting a chunk or piece of ice.

Remarkably, even at approximately 1.5miles (2km) from the shoreline, one can easily discern 2-4foot pieces of ice. At a kayak cruising speed of 7-9knots (14-16km/hr), hitting such an "object" would most certainly result in a "miniature Titanic" scenario. Thus, early detection using mobile yet light sonar devices is paramount, so that immediate countermovements can be initiated.
The following user(s) said Thank You: red_pepper

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3 years 11 months ago #27624 by red_pepper
Great video! Thanks - and thank you for remembering the fallen. You or whoever is in that video must have a great base layer and some excellent gloves/helmet/etc! My dry suit does a great job of keeping water out, and with a Smart Wool Medium base layer I stay plenty warm paddling, but I will cool off hanging out for extended periods in icy water. I also find that after I return and I'm no longer creating heat, the cooling sweat will sap the heat out of me. I think I actually prefer my wet suit down to about freezing (both are used with NRS Toaster Mitts and NRS Boundary Shoe boots).

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