Does the bailer really slow down the ski?

3 years 2 months ago #31606 by Impala
Hi all,

I have not yet been able to finally sort that question out:

On all my 3 'skis' (partly hybrids, but that does not matter here) I have Anderson-type bailers installed. On calm water, I usually keep them closed as I find the noise annoying, but also because the should increase resistance. But once I leave the bailer open on flat water (regardsless of whether it's a super shute 60, an metal Anderson or the DeBrito Bailer), I can hardly feel any slowing down of the boat.

I once tested it (under constant heart rate and with disguised speed display), but with just two attempts each with bailer and and without. The difference was 0.1 km/h in disfavour of the bailer, but given the small number of test runs, this is of course without any statistical significance. I would rather continue to support the Null hypothesis of 'bailer has no net effect'.

Could it be that the air that the bailer distributes across the aft hull might a) reduce frictional drag and b) reduce wave resistance by slightly lifting the rear part of the boat, and that these beneficial effects might just offset the additional resistance of the bailer's plate?

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3 years 2 months ago #31607 by PSwitzer
I'm no physics wonk, but I dig your theory.

Personally, I am trapped in a somewhat controlling and abusive relationship with the anderson bailer on my V12. Like you, I experimented with leaving it closed for greater performance. Unfortunately, on flat water I've grown accustomed to the reassuring sucking sound as a default speedometer. The higher the pitch of the suck, the faster I am going and therefore more awesome I am. Each stroke pulses out a little affirmation of my badassery. Bailer closed, and the vengeful little scamp gives me no ego stroking at all, totally silent, and I am left to toil away in a spiral of self-doubt.

I'll spare you the details of our misadventures in the downwinds- let's just say that the bailer made it perfectly clear that she doesn't appreciate being opened, and working hard to dry me out and help me along, only to be shut off again without so much as a thank-you....

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3 years 2 months ago #31608 by d0uglass
PSwitzer- I enjoyed your response to this. You have a way with words.

Impala- 0.1 kph is enough to put you 8 boat lengths behind the competition in a 30 minute race, which I reckon is significant. But fussing with opening and closing the bailer and sometimes having a puddle of water in the boat might put you behind by a similar amount, so I guess it's a tough call. As a beginner I like closing it on flat water so I can listen for whether or not I'm getting a clean paddle stroke.

Stellar SEI 1g

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3 years 2 months ago #31617 by Dicko
Bailers and venturis absolutely slow down your boat. I have an Anderson bailer on my SEL and the difference is at least .2kmh. That's 200metres an hour. Try sprinting with it open and then with it closed. The effect seems to be greater when you are doing sprints than when you are just rolling along.
I find another interesting thing on my super light SEL is that when the bailer is down the ski is more stable. It seems to stop the the nose skitting around in confused waters.
There is also a noticeable difference to the glide on small bumps.
The drag from the venturi hood is one of the reasons that red 7 invented the venturi bullet. It reduces the drag from the hood. In turn this allowed red 7 to have 3 veturis on the re7 pro.

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3 years 2 months ago #31623 by photofr
I will vouch for the fact that an open bailer is slower. Even in Open Ocean, I find my accelerations to be smoother and ultimately faster. On the flats, I am getting between 0.1 and 0.3 km/h differences. Since I am using the DeBrito bailer, opening and closing it with the heel of my foot is a breeze - I therefore leave it closed 99% of the time, even in Open Ocean.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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3 years 2 months ago #31624 by Fath2o
Only experience I have with Andersen type bailer is with a sailing dinghy I had some 30 odd years ago.
I modified my v10 with the Red 7 system to fix a very poorly designed and installed venturi. Haven't measure speed, but, the
system in the picture is silent, super effective and efficient. My other skis have more typical venturis with no bullets and make a lot of sucking noise as speed increases. So my conclusion is the silent venturis create much less drag then the noisy ones.
Attachments:

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3 years 1 month ago #31721 by cogdoc
Nice work, is that a seat bailer? Awesome, be nice not to sit in a bucket of pee on longer runs. The gap between the bullet and the hood defines how much this system "sucks", and thus how quick it empties. The crappy bung system on my Stellar needs a bit of modification, my old ozflyte had small poly - tarp type flaps on the outside of the hull inside the bailer hood, and whilst not water tight, they whould impede water coming back in when you slowed / stopped. Best of all worlds that.

Now: Stellar SEL Gen 2

Prior: Ozflyte R21, Competition Kayaks Fireblade K1, MaxKayak Clever X K1, numerous SLSC Spec Ski's.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Fath2o

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3 years 1 month ago #31724 by Dicko
I used some thin rubber to create a flap as cogdog explained on a couple of skis. The flap worked really well. It wasn't perfect but some skis fill with water the moment you sit them on the water and by the time you get in your bum is wet. The flap absolutely stopped that. Back to topic though. Having the bailer down might reduce your cruising speed by only .2kph, but after a couple of test paddles it reduces your sprint effort from around 14.5 kph down to 13.5 kph.

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3 years 1 month ago #31725 by Fath2o
Thanks cogdoc. No, not a seat bailer just redid the orignal and added two new at forward end of foot well. I just splash a lot of water in the seat well when I pee.

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