YouTube Videos on boat repair

1 year 11 months ago #32421 by robin.mousley
A friend overseas had a boat roll off his car roof onto the pavement and the tail was damaged.

He wants to repair it himself (there's no repair facility nearby) and is looking for instructional videos. Can anyone point to a good video or videos on YouTube that might help?

Thanks

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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1 year 11 months ago - 1 year 11 months ago #32426 by Newbflat
Yes please. I have an Enormous! repare job ahead of me and I would really like to see some ultra light composite repair tutorials, or pointers to books... anything.
My virgin (never touched water) V8 Double had its head chopped off by a tree branch. No, there is no insurance that is covering this... it’s on me to repair it.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
Attachments:

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1 year 11 months ago - 1 year 11 months ago #32432 by MCImes
Newb, That SUCKS!!!

I have repaired many boats and paddles, though nothing near a severed head like you have. The worst repair I have done is a 15" hole ripped in my kevlar canoe by a submerged sign post. For reference I've done ~15-20 low to medium complexity composite repairs using carbon, kevlar or fiberglass. I look back on my first repair and shake my head. You learn a lot doing your first few repairs and I would highly recommend you practice several times before touching your boat, which brings me to my next point...

With that in mind, I would say you have a very low likelyhood of successfully repairing your V8D yourself. On top of the actual rejoining issue, you have to align the tip dead-nuts straight for the boat to ever paddle correctly again. That alone is probably the hardest part of your repair and I dont know how you would do this in application (that's not considering re-intorducing the proper bow rocker either). Also, re-attaching the interior foam stringer adds another level of complexity.

Basically, just getting the tip aligned and attached properly is 9/10 difficulty. Beyond that, as a composite repair newbie, your first repairs will be ugly. There is an art to composite repair that is learned with experience. If you attempt this yourself, I would cut a 5 gallon bucket in half (or something similar to simulate that boat) and re-attach it a few times before attempting your boat.

If you can swing it, I would have this professionally repaired. If not, practice a lot before attempting the actual repair.

Here is an instructional document I wrote up for my outrigger canoe club. Its not quite as good as a video, but is a good guide to start

Composite Repair supplies list

1. Clothes that you don’t care about or Apron
2. Disposable gloves
3. Acetone or lacquer thinner
4. Rags
5. Dust Masks for sanding
6. 80 Grit sandpaper
7. 120 Grit sandpaper
8. 150 Grit sandpaper
9. 180 Grit sandpaper
10. 220 Grit sandpaper
11. (possibly 320, 500, 1000, and or 1500 grit sand paper as well if you want a semi-polished look)
12. Craft paper (template/pattern for cloth)
13. Masking Tape
14. Masking Paper
15. Resin Part A (West Systems Resin #105)
16. Resin Part B (West Systems Fast Hardener #205 -or-)
17. Resin Part B (West Systems Slow Hardener #206)
18. Digital Scale, 1 gram
19. Mixing Cups
20. Mixing Sticks
21. Disposable ‘chip brushes’ (not foam brushes)
22. Carbon or Fiberglass cloth
23. Sharp Scissors
24. Peel Ply (breathable silicone coated nylon cloth used for vacuum bagging)
25. Long bladed, light duty utility knife
26. Short bladed, heavy duty utility knife
27. Extra knife blades
28. Putty knife (disposable, flexible Bondo spreading knives work well)
29. Gel coat repair kit, Spray Paint or Spar Varnish (something for UV protection)






IMPORTANT! Please read all the way through the instructions prior to starting as the following steps may be time sensitive or require prep to proceed

Prep:
1. Put on gloves, wet a rag, and clean the repair area with acetone or lacquer thinner very well
Failure to clean the repair area well may result in the resin being repelled
2. Sand the repair area with 80 grit – Extend sanding 2” beyond the actual damage (in most cases)
Important – remove all residue by scraping, sanding, or solvent wash, or epoxy will not adhere well
Important – define the boundaries of the repair and take care to not sand outside this area. It will look sloppy if you sand haphazardly.
3. After sanding is complete, thoroughly remove all the dust with a dry brush or a wet rag
4. Tape off the area around the repair with masking tape, following your defined sanding area
5. Apply a perimeter of masking paper around the tape to catch drips and runs, and allow a surface to squeegee the excess resin onto.
6. Cut out the appropriate shapes (patches) from the Carbon or Fiberglass cloth
a. If multiple layers are needed, make a “Bulls eye” of cloth layers where the smallest layer is almost the same size as the damage, then make a larger layer that extends beyond the damage by 2” if practical (in tight areas, a lot of extra cloth is not always practical)
b. If 3 layers are used, make the middle layer half way in between the size of the smallest and largest patch.
c. If the repair is odd shaped or in a hard to reach area, use Craft paper to make a pattern, then cut out the cloth on a table.
d. Cut the cloth about ½” smaller than the taped off area on all sides. If the cloth extends over the tape, it is hard to remove and obviously creates a bad bond, and the patch will peel off over time
7. Once the cloth is cut out, carefully set it aside in an organized staging area. (Once the resin is mixed, you don’t want to waste time figuring out which piece goes where or replace damaged pieces)
8. Cut out Peel Ply to extend beyond the patch about 3” on all sides and place with the matching pieces of carbon cloth.
Note: Prep is 60% of the work! A half-assed prep job will lead to a half assed repair!

Glassing’
1. Gather all the necessary supplies and organize them so that everything is staged and easy to access. You’ll need: Pre-cut cloth, pre-cut Peel Ply, Resin part A, Resin Part B, scale, stir sticks, masking tape, extra gloves, chip brushes, garbage can
2. Decide if you’re going to use 205 fast hardener or 206 slow hardener. If the temperature is below 70°, you should likely use 205. If it is going to be below 60°, you must use 205. If the temperature is in the upper 70’s or higher, 206 will give you more working time. Also consider the following factors:
a. Resin cures faster with higher temperatures
b. The working time of resin varies a lot depending on how much resin is mixed at once, the shape of the container, the temperature outside, exposure to sunlight, and how quickly the resin is spread out on to the surface or fabric. (more surface area = more heat radiates into the air = less retained heat from the exothermic reaction)
c. In general, you can expect 5 minutes working time with 205, and about 10 minutes with 206, less in hot weather, more in cooler weather.
d. The curing action of resin is Exothermic, meaning it creates its own heat. This is important because if you mix a lot of resin together (even 8oz in a cup), it can get very hot and gel very quickly, making the resin unusable. Remember that large batches of resin can cure very quickly!
e. Once resin “Kicks” or begins to turn from a liquid to a gel, it becomes unusable to saturate cloth. Be aware of when your resin begins to gel. Once you notice it, you have very little working time left! In some cases, just a handful of seconds if its warm out.
f. Partially ‘Kicked’ resin can be used to back fill holes if you do not have resin thickener
g. In general, use 206 hardener if you are new to composite repair and the temp is above 65 for at least 4-6 hours.
Note: You can lay down multiple layers at the same time, as long as the resin has not ‘blushed’. Blushing is a chemical process whereby Amines come out of solution and create a cloudy appearance on the surface of the cured resin. ‘Amine Blushing’ happens near the end of curing (when it is in the solid state) and inhibits the ability of subsequent layers of resin to adhere to the first layer. To ensure proper bonding between layers, lay up all layers at one time before blushing occurs, or, wait for the first layer to fully cure, wash with acetone, sand with 80 grit, and layup the next layer.

3. Put on clothes that you do not care about. Resin generally ruins any clothing it touches
4. Prepare a chip brush: cheap disposable brushes often shed bristles during use. Pull on the bristles with moderate force and shake the brush out to remove the loose bristles. (When the bristles come out during the repair, they’re annoying to remove when soaked in resin).
5. Put on disposable gloves. Stage a 2nd pair in case you rip one. Resin covered fingers are no fun.
6. Decide if you need to back-fill any deep grooves, holes, creases ect.
a. Holes need to be back filled if, when the cloth is pulled tight, there would be a pocket of air beneath the fabric. This is most often needed on convex surfaces (like the bottom of a boat) when they take an impact. Often, the impact will create a divot in the hull. If the cloth is just stretched over the recess without back fill, that will create a weak spot that is likely to puncture again.
b. To back fill a divot, mix a small amount of resin (probably <18 grams total) as described below, and stir in thickener until you have the consistency of mayonnaise.
c. Get a popsicle stick, paint stir stick, or something to smoosh the filler into the divot
d. Use a flexible squeegee to smooth and flatten the thickened resin. It should be even with the undamaged surfaces adjacent to the divot
e. Wipe off any excess thickened resin from around the fill area with the squeegee or putty knife
7. Turn on the digital scale, change it to grams, zero the scale with the mixing cup on it.
8. Add 5 parts resin to 1 part hardener by weight (its better to mix multiple small batches than 1 big batch in general)
a. Examples:
i. 5 grams resin, 1 gram hardener
ii. 25 grams resin, 5 grams hardener
iii. 50 grams resin, 10 grams hardener
b. As soon as you add the hardener, you’re on the clock! You only have 5 or 10 minutes to use the resin so move efficiently, but not hastily.
9. As soon as the hardener is added, vigorously stir the mixture for about 30 seconds, but try not to add too many air bubbles (some bubbles are fine, but you don’t want it to look white and foamy) be sure to get all around the bottom and sides, because unmixed resin will never cure!
10. Brush a light layer of resin onto the surface
11. Lay the first layer of cloth onto the surface (remember, start with the largest patch first for multi-layer patches)
a. Try not to move it around too much as it will tend to fray around the edges and distort the shape
12. Brush on enough resin to saturate the cloth. Fiberglass will become transparent when wet out.
a. It helps wet out the cloth if you ‘push’ the resin into the cloth as opposed to brushing it. Use brushing motions to spread the resin and pushing motions to saturate the cloth.
b. Use caution around the edges of the cloth, as the brush will pull strands of the fiber out of the cloth weave, leaving you with a distorted shape or stringy hairs coming off
13. If your resin Kicked / Gel’d mix a new batch
14. If you can still use your first batch of resin, lay down the 2nd layer of cloth (if needed)
15. Wet out the 2nd layer with resin (if needed)
16. If your resin kicked and you have a 3rd layer, mix new resin (if needed)
17. Lay down the 3rd layer (if needed)
18. Wet out the 3rd layer
19. Manicure the patch as much as possible. Make sure it is pressed securely into concave corners, as it can pull up if you move the patch around during brushing. Poke at air bubbles between layers with something sharp and see if you can work them out. Don’t take too much time though, because the peel ply needs to be applied while the resin is still in its early gel state.
20. Lay the Peel Ply over the patch, extending beyond it on all sides.
21. Take a flexible squeegee and carefully wipe the excess resin from the middle towards the masking paper on all sides of the patch. Be sure not to pull or move the fabric with the squeegee. Hold the peel ply in place with your other hand to provide an anchor for it.
a. The goal here is to remove as much resin as possible while still having wet cloth. Resin adds no strength, only weight, and excess resin actually makes the patch weaker. Wipe the resin outside the taped off area similar to how you wash your car windshield with a squeegee.
22. Once the resin is squeegee’d out, you can tape the peel ply in place to prevent the wind from blowing it, or, if you’re doing repairs on both sides of the boat, it will hold the patch in place until it cures.
23. Repeat the Mix resin/Lay cloth/Wet out/Peel Ply/squeegee/tape-in-place procedure for the remaining patches
24. Clean up!
a. Watch for runs! If you can find them and wipe them off while they’re liquid, it saves a lot of work later
b. If you need to get resin off your hands, Acetone or Lacquer Thinner is about all that will work, and even then it doesn’t work great. It’s much better not to get it on you in the first place!


Removing the peel ply and shaping the resin while it’s still semi-soft
1. Wait until the resin is just barely tacky to the touch, probably between 2 and 6 hours after mixing depending on the temperature and which Hardener was used
2. Slowly peel up 1 corner of the Peel Ply. The resin on the boat should not move, should not pull up, and should not lift any fabric with it. If the Peel Ply lifts any resin or cloth from the boat, the resin is not cured enough yet. Wait another 30-60 minutes and check again.
a. When I say ‘lift from the boat’ I mean the resin will create small hair like strings similar to melted cheese strings on a hot pizza, or pulling gum off your shoe.
3. Once you can peel up a corner of peel ply without lifting any fabric, you can remove the entire sheet of peel ply. The surface should be relatively smooth, probably with a few wrinkles in the resin if the peel ply bunched up.
4. Pull the tape – carefully!
a. Pull the tape slowly and watch for strands of fabric that were caught outside the patch area. If a strand starts to pull up, take a sharp knife and cut it as close to the surface as possible
b. If any fabric got pushed over the tape, you must take a very sharp knife laying down almost parallel to the surface, and cut towards the patch until you get through the tape. From there, angle the knife upwards and cut out of the patch. Obviously, you don’t want tape to be the primary bond of your patch! That would create a weak spot and the patch would start to peel from there over time.
5. If you catch the resin at the perfect time, you can shave off any high spots with a sharp knife. Its easier to do it now than when it cures!
6. If the resin hit a high spot in the tape and has a blunt/sharp edge, now is the time to cut it down at a shallow angle. It will make smoothing with sandpaper much easier tomorrow! Also, it is nearly impossible to sand a smooth blend from a blunt transition line. If you can even get a little taper to the edge, it makes blending easier and better looking in the end.
7. Let the resin cure fully (Usually about a day. It can be as little as a few hours in hot weather, or up to a couple days in cool weather)

Final smoothing and sanding
1. Get a rigid (stiff backed) sanding block and load it with 100-120 grit sand paper
2. Try to knock down the high spots in the patch with the coarse sand paper
3. Once the high spots are flattened smooth the patch with 150, 180 or 220 grit sandpaper
a. If you’re painting the patch, you can probably stop at 150 or 180 grit depending on how nice you want it to look
b. If you’re going to clear coat the patch, you probably want to sand it to at least 220 grit
4. It is recommended that you paint the patch with either an opaque paint or at minimum a clear Spar Varnish to provide UV protection. Over time, Ultraviolet light from the sun will degrade the epoxy and cloth. After about 600 hours of sun exposure, the composite becomes about 30% weaker, so it’s a good idea to clear coat or paint the patch.

Celebrate!
Go drink a beer to celebrate a successful repair, or if you were terribly unsuccessful, drink several beers to numb the pain of failure (then go sand away your mistakes)

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: owenw, Watto

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1 year 11 months ago #32434 by Epicpaddler
That's horrible. Sucks that it's not covered by homeowners or rental insurance.

At least I know what the inside of my v8pro looks like. I think I would be sick. When I dropped my carbon fiber kayak off the roof of my car it took a pretty good size chunk out of the bottom. No local repair guys would touch it since it was carbon fiber. Then i got lucky and contacted a guy who only works on high performance rowing shells. He repaired it good as new. I'm sure there is someone out there with mad skills that can fix your damage. Good luck.

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1 year 11 months ago #32468 by Newbflat
Thanks MCimes.. I will read that over and over and commit it to memory. I’m not to worried about getting the bow lined up correctly. I’m not missing any pieces and there are areas that are torn cleanly on three sides to as long as they all touch evenly is should be straight. I will need to cut a hole in the top to work on the inside I guess. I have a friend here that is a master at this but I can’t afford him... he said he would give me some pro bono coaching out of sheer pity. Now I need to find a place to do this in the winter. Thanks again.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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1 year 11 months ago #32471 by downwinda
Newbflat….no trip to Dan Hund with this one?

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1 year 11 months ago #32472 by Newbflat

downwinda wrote: Newbflat….no trip to Dan Hund with this one?


Can’t afford it... I spent it all on the ski. He might be the guy who’s taking pity on me though...... just say'n.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 year 11 months ago #32475 by robin.mousley
Here are a couple of videos that look useful:



This is an oldie but goodie on threading non-metal rudder lines


Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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1 year 11 months ago #32480 by Impala
Hi Newb,

I have to admit I'm a bit shocked about the little tear strength that this particular composite apparently offers. Good argument for having a layer of kevlar in it. Then stuff does not get torn apart so easily. Look, similar stuff can happen on open water - you hit some obstacle floating slightly below the surface, and in that case I would be happy if my boat wouldn't immediately have a gaping hole and get useless as a float.

I am really sorry for you, this is a nightmare come true ... all the best for your repair efforts, but if I were in your place, I would go to lengths to find a professional to do this.

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1 year 11 months ago #32481 by Newbflat
Thanks for your sympathy Impala. But there was nothing that would have saved the ski. It’s hard to see n the photo but that branch is about 30 feet long, fell 90 feet out of a big fir tree and weighs near what I do. It took two people to move it with a lot of effort. Nothing would have survived that no matter how much Kevlar was in it. It smashed the metal rack it was on and destroyed the heavy duty metal ladder you can see in the picture as well. There is a little in Kevlar in there along the keel line and it had no chance. Plus, on the repair end of things, Kevlar is a pain in the ass to deal with. The first thing my repair guy said to me was "you're lucky it’s glass, way easer to repair". I would happily hand it to the guy I have used before who does wonderful work but its totaled... it will cost more to repare it than buying a new one. Plus, I don’t have anywhere near the money to buy a new one or pay someone else to fix it. I sold two skis to pay for this one (V10 double and a Stellar S18s). I’m more frustrated in not having a place to work on it. No garage, and winter is coming. My dreams of taking people out paddling and introducing them to skis and downwinds were smashed..... literally.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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1 year 11 months ago #32482 by MCImes
You're in the seattle area?

Looking at this again, this repair is going to be tough. Can you post some more pics of the damage, and maybe one of the pieces held together?

I'd probably approach the repair like this:
See where there are clean lines you can use to line the tip up again. anything frayed or jagged I would probably cut away until I had a clean line again.

Unfortunately it looks like the water side of the hull took the impact and shattered irregularly. If this werent the case, I would have said to cut off the upper deck so you can access the inside of the bottom and do most of the repair there. If you can access the inside of a repair, its always ideal to do the majority of the repair on the interior (with 1-3 cloth layers inside) then do 1 thin outer layer just to smooth things over. This method will result in the least protrusion from the natural hull line.

In your case, due to the damage pattern, I'd probably attach the nose using the clean tear lines as a guide. I'd probably tack the nose in line with a couple-few small strips of cloth or possibly even temporary adhesive just so it says in place while the real repair happens.

Once the nose was tacked in place, I'd cut a fairly large access hole out of the top deck. If you can do it with a very sharp shear you can probably just lay it back on top when you are done and glass it in place. Once you have the tip aligned and access to the inside, I'd put 2 layers of 6oz carbon down at the same time to build my primary inner strength layer. I'd use something like this:
compositeenvisions.com/carbon-fiber-fabr...28eb3bb87c093f8aca6f
or this
compositeenvisions.com/carbon-fiber-fabr...28eb3bb87c093f8aca6f

before you do that, get some thin but semi-rigid plastic sheeting, like very thin lexan or overhead projector sheeting. tape that on the outside of the hull so any excess resin will not weep on to the bottom of the hull. The sheet will make sure the patch confirms to the existing hull and will release easily.

Once the inside is sufficiently reinforced with 2 layers of carbon, I'd flip the boat over and back fill any gaps / divots / cracks / recesses on the outside. Then i'd do 1 layer of 3 or 6oz carbon on the outside of the hull. Definitely use the Peel Ply method, as it will result in a smoother patch.
compositeenvisions.com/airtech-bleeder-l...28eb3bb87c093f8aca6f

from there I'd reattach the access hatch that was cut out of the top deck. After that, its sand sand sand until everything is as smooth as possible. Then coat with gel coat repair or paint.

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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