V12 vs SF S vs V10Sport for stabilty

1 year 4 months ago #33940 by mickeyA
V12 g1 black tip, SF S vacuum glass, V10Sport (current, g2) red tip.  Curious about opinions on stability in choppy bays, large lakes, oceans.  Not downwind or flat, say 1” or so boat wake generated confused action.  I am more concerned with initial/primary stability.  I think it is obvious the v12 would be most twitchy and sport the least, and if so, is SF S closer to one, or exactly in between the two?  Consider the layups.  Thanks.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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1 year 4 months ago #33941 by MCImes
I had the V10 original (which was 17.1" beam like the V12g1, so expect the stability profile to be similar), currently have the SF-S, and although I have not had the V10S, I had an XT and SR which should be fairly similar stability wise.

Im totally enamored with the SF-S's Stability to speed ratio (I have glass vac layup for reference). I notice only a very small loss of stability compared to the XT. Compared to the SR there is a more noticeable loss, as the SR is a flat-ish and high primary stability boat. With that said, I like the stability profile of the SF-S way more than either the XT or SR. This is for 2 reasons: 1 - the SF's secondary stability keeps building all the way until capsize and is very predictable and reassuring in confused water. Even when a hole open up under me unexpectedly, the secondary stability is so deep you can just lean hard and keep paddling. Second, the SF is not affected as badly by cross chop as my previous 19" boats. The SF rides over a side wave very evenly without a violent roll as the crest passes under you. I assume this is common to most skinnier boats, as the lower stability also means they're less affected by the angle of the water under you. 

Its been a good 3 years since I had the V10g0 but I remember it to be significantly less stable than the SF-S. ZachHandler on the forums here loves the V12g1 and says it has stability for days, so 'stability in the butt of the beholder'. he has paddled everything and might chime in. 

I forget what you paddle but want to say some intermediate boat? My guess is that in washing machine waves, the V12 would be a handful until you develop very good balance. The SF-S can be a handful when its really messy, but I'm talking about 3 directions of 0.5-1.5m primary swell and wind waves  plus 2-3 directions of smaller reflected swell plus a 15kt wind (like we get in southern California outside the break wall where I play most of the time).  In those type of conditions the XT and SR were a handful too, so I dont know how much better the V10S would really be. 

So my semi-educated guess is that the SF would feel closer to the V10S than the V12. Im curious what others think though. 

Currently - Swordfish S in Southern California's ocean waters
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #33942 by Newbflat
Can’t speak to the V12 but I had a V10 sport (g2) and now a SF-s.  For me stability is a funny thing. From a static point of view the SF-s is less stable. It feels rounder and narrower when sitting in it and paddling around flat water.  The Sport having better initial stability and rides a bit “flatter” on the water. But when it gets messy I much prefer the SF-s to the Sport.  To me the sport trains off some predictable secondary for better primary and the SF-s is just the opposite.  I end up feeling sort of unsure in the sport in reflected waves, when surfing diagonal aggressively or have peaky waves come up on my quarter. In the SF-s in the same conditions I just feel planted and everything feels predictable and steady.  Yet when I first sit in the ski it always feels tippy and loose.  I have paddled threw reflected messy chop that I shouldn’t have felt so comfortable in but somehow in the SF-s I just feel planted and steady. I never really felt like that in the sport.  So, at least for me, sometimes the more sable ski... isn’t actually. 

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.

Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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1 year 4 months ago #33943 by PSwitzer
Might be tough finding people who have paddled all those boats/layups within a close timeframe for good comparison.  I have paddled G1 sport (years ago), hybrid SF S and black tip G1 v12 so not quite what you're asking. 

Sport to me is like a barge, can sit at rest fussing around with your kit, or taking a pee over the side or whatever without worry of capsize. 

Swordy more active, requires some connection with the water for stability but while underway never any conscious corrections or impairment of power, can miss your catch with no penalty.

v12G1 requires continuous connection with water, cannot comfortably sit at rest in the ocean without blade in water, during normal paddling no effort required to maintain power, but this comes with the caveat that every stroke needs firm connection between hips, feet, and blade, if you space out and miss your catch, and lose that magic "stability triangle" a conscious correction will be needed.  

For me, the confused conditions are actually a lot easier to manage on the v12 than glassy ocean with underlying swell.  The chop seems to hold the hull snugly at the wide flares, versus in the glassy stuff the boat is really active and needs a firm core at all times to keep it from flopping over onto the secondary.

I couldn't say if the Swordy is closer to v12 or sport,  I suspect that will be different for everyone based on fit, weight etc.

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1 year 3 months ago #33995 by mickeyA
Thanks for the great insight. I finally got to paddle the v12 g1 black tip in a 21k race. Supposedly flat water so I chose tippiest of the 3.  Unexpected 20-25kt winds made things very choppy in a medium sized bay.  Straight upwind for first half (no issues), then straight downwind coming home.  Some waves to catch, but then total washing machine, badly confused, reflected 3 foot waves tossing you all over the place.  To my surprise, I never fell, or even felt like I would.  I’m sure the SF S would have felt more stable, as would the sport, but I gained a lot of confidence in the v12 g1 that day.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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