Epic Weedless Rudders

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10 years 9 months ago - 10 years 9 months ago #8016 by kiwial
Epic Weedless Rudders was created by kiwial
Any body been using these?
Looking for feedback on how effective they are with and without the weed guard and how effective the turning is compared to the surf rudder

Cheers

Al
Last edit: 10 years 9 months ago by kiwial.

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10 years 9 months ago - 10 years 9 months ago #8022 by Rightarmbad
The weed guard used with the large elliptical rudder is surprisingly effective.
The standard adhesive is crap though, mine only lasted a few paddles and disappeared.

The small weedless rudder is too small in any sort of conditions, it just isn't long enough to stay in the water.
On the flat and in the ocean when it is in the water it performs well.

On the flat turning is just as responsive, with the bonus that the rudder movement doesn't rock the boat.
The boat also feels a bit tippier over the top as the small rudder lets it rock easier.

In the ocean it works better than imagined as long as it still reaches the water.

There is quite a noticeable speed difference with the smaller rudder being quicker, especially in the 14 to 15kph range.

Weedless rudder with guard never caught a single piece of crap for me.
Weedless without a guard, still picked up some small stuff like pine needles in the gap between the rudder and the hull.

Now if they rounded the front of the ski a little to stop weeds getting stuck there, you would be home and hosed.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 10 years 9 months ago by Rightarmbad.

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10 years 9 months ago #8029 by StraightSix
I lost my weed deflector too after just 3 paddles - it's pretty standard double sided sticky tape that I'll have to replace before attaching the replacement.

I ran across some floating kelp just outside Dana Point and could feel it grabbing the rudder and slowing me down hard. I have the weedless rudder (and at that point still had the deflector), so I was slightly surprised, compared to the behavior of my sea kayak's skeg, which climbs right over. I'm pretty sure I would have been completely stuck if I used the Epic surf rudder...

The rudder is responsive enough for my needs, in fact, I added a small rectangle of high density pluck foam in the cavity to adda little resistance and straighten the rudders as per the other thread.

HTH

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10 years 8 months ago #8032 by Shady
Replied by Shady on topic Re: Epic Weedless Rudders
I was given the weed guard when I bought my ski but have not yet purchased the weedless rudder.

I agree about the adhisive on the weed guard. I havent even istalled mine yet and I can tell it wont last 5 minutes.

I plan on changing over in the next week or two as I thought it would be an important change for the Hawkesbury Classic.
I have heard/read many times that they are quite effective in reducing/eliminating the amount of weed caught and read varying reports about the speed increase because of less drag.

I dont plan on using the ski in that kind of environment all that often so I'd like to be able to remove the weed guard after the classic. My connundrum is how to attached the guard so that it stays there for the next month of training and the race andso that I can remove it after the race and wont damaged the ski.

The guy that sold me the ski said to use araldite but I can see that damaging the ski.

Any thoughts?

Epic V10 Sport Performance

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10 years 8 months ago #8034 by zachhandler
I have a lot of experience with weed guards because most of my paddling is done in very weedy areas. In fact many places here (Minnesota USA)it is impossible to paddle without a weedless rudder and weed guard. So here's what I've learned.

1. If you just use the adhesive that comes on the weedguard you will lose your weedguard in a week or two. If you are lucky.

2. A good non-permanent solution is double sided outdoor foam mounting tape sold by 3M and by Scotch:
www.amazon.com/Scotch-Exterior-Mounting-...id=1317256769&sr=1-2
This tape will last all season in my experience

3. if you hit a log, any tape is liable to let go.

4. You must take great care in removing the weed guard. If you just push on it till it pries off, you will create a soft spot in the coremat from the sharp point of pressure. I have learned this the heard way. My v12 performance has a soft spot now from pulling off weedguards. A better technique is to use a sharp knife, or dental floss, to cut through the foam tape, freeing the guard from the boat gently.

5. I have lost enough weedguards that I will no longer pay $20 for a carbon fiber one. There is no reason that trinket needs to made of carbon. I make my own, and i make them for others. I cut two shapes out of som plastic scrap (from an old venetian style window blind), and hot glue them together. I use the same double sided foam tape. From the time I come up the idea, I can have one assembled and on my boat in under 10 minutes.

Hope that helps.

Zach

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy
The following user(s) said Thank You: garykroukamp

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10 years 8 months ago #8038 by Rightarmbad
I think that the one thing you can take away from this thread, is that the tape Epic uses is crap.
I imagine that they have inadvertently managed to double their sales of this particular item through non controlled loss.

(or maybe they planned it this way)

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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10 years 8 months ago #8045 by zachhandler
I'm not sure I'm that cynical. It says all over the packaging that you should epoxy the thing on and that self adhesive is not secure. The weedguard is flat and the underside of the boat is round, so with out the addition of the foam there is no way to get a large contact.

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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10 years 8 months ago #8047 by garykroukamp
Could you post a pic of your homemade deflector, Zach?

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10 years 8 months ago #8050 by StraightSix
I'm not that cynical either, but the packaging I received it in was clear plastic baggy with nada instructions whatsoever....this came with a new boat.

As for the increase in unit sales, I think you're right, since Epic is now sold out :-)

I'll try the weed guard from ocean paddle sports. Looks a little more solid in any case. I'm still too much in love with the new Ski to put anything home made on it. Won't last long I'm sure.

Cheers

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10 years 8 months ago #8051 by Rightarmbad
There was no packaging with mine either.
Just a sticker with a barcode and price.

Surely a plastic moulding can be made for cents, $15 is silly.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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10 years 8 months ago #8055 by red_pepper
I've been using the Epic weedless rudder system for over a year, and I have nothing but praise for it. As noted by others, the instructions tell you the double-sided tape on the weed deflector won't last; you'll need to epoxy it on if you expect it to stay. I did, and I've never had a problem. It's been on for over a year so far. When the weed deflector is coupled with the 5" weedless rudder, it's extremely effective at staying weed-free; I've won races where my competiton (in an ICF boat) had weeds entangle his rudder while I sailed right through the weed patch. In fact, it's far more effective than an over-stern rudder. The over-sterns will typically pick up weeds, then release, but the weeds just go around this rudder.

With the surf rudder, it's a different matter. The 8" surf rudder is noticably more stable as the waves pick up (and slower as well), but if you go through a weed patch it will grab 'em like crazy. The deflector will keep weeds away from the rudder/hull interface, but the rest of the rudder is too straight to deflect weeds.

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10 years 8 months ago #8059 by kiwial
Replied by kiwial on topic Re: Epic Weedless Rudders
Thanks guys, all your input has been fantastic

:kiss: :kiss:

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10 years 8 months ago #8061 by red_pepper
Glad to help! I did forget to answer the other part of your question: the weedless rudder is every bit as effective in turning the boat as the surf rudder, at least in flat water. I'm sure when it gets wavy you'll want the extra length of the surf rudder to make certain your rudder stays in the water. :)

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10 years 8 months ago #8062 by nell
Replied by nell on topic Re: Epic Weedless Rudders
I agree with the above in that the weedless rudder with an Epic or a homemade guard is very effective in not picking up weeds and in being responsive enough for turning until the wind waves become bigger than about 2 ft peak to trough, at which point the rudder isn't long enough. It's a great combo for all mild conditions, though. It will "bump" right over kelp pretty easily.

The universal rudder is very good for surfing until waves get really steep and over about 5 or 6 feet going downwind. It doesn't "tip" the ski much at all. It will still pick up lots of weeds even with the guard.

I find the large surf rudder far too responsive in an Ultra V12. I'll experiment with moving the post forwards and see if that de-tunes it a bit. This rudder will stop you in your tracks if you hit a log or thick kelp. Erik

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8145 by zachhandler
Very simple. Picture here

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by zachhandler.

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