Fenn Swordfish

5 years 9 months ago #10191 by owenfromwales
Hi Rob,
I, like many others I`m sure, are really appreciating all this comparative work you and the guys are putting in on the intermediate skis. I must admit though, I`m really looking forward to hearing more of the Swordfish Vs Focus debate. The Swordy`s a bit narrower, but the Focus is a bit longer. How much does this even things out I wonder?
Please tell me you`ve got something more on this in the pipes!

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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5 years 9 months ago #10192 by Ryan
Thanks Rob, I remain curious as to whether I have made the incorrect choice of craft! It does apear so and the danger is that attempting just to get comfortable in the Elite is robbing me of the enjoyment of the sport.

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5 years 9 months ago #10193 by robin.mousley

I`m really looking forward to hearing more of the Swordfish Vs Focus debate.


We don't have a Focus to play with... I paddled it once in December in a mild reverse Millers but didn't have any of my regular marks to paddle against. It seemed stable and responsive - but it was a sample of one boat, one paddle in unchallenging conditions!

Tonight Dale will be on the V10 Sport, I'll be paddling my Fenn Elite - so that should be interesting. In the next few days we should have some Genius boats to play with... I also want to paddle the Sport again on a decent Millers Run.

So many boats, so little time!

Rob

Currently Think Evo II, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others I can't remember!

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5 years 9 months ago #10194 by owenfromwales
It`s a tough job Rob. Sounds like it`s a great time to be in the market for a 2nd hand elite boat :)

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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5 years 9 months ago #10205 by robin.mousley
Well, getting back on the Elite wasn't a great experience; I struggled to relax in the small, confused chop in Hout Bay and ended up finishing a minute behind Dale in the V10 Sport and over two minutes behind Nick Pickard in his Vault.

Someone else on the forum said it - unless you keep paddling the elite boats several times a week, you lose your stability. For this ageing mid-packer, never a truer word spoken. After three weeks of paddling stable intermediate boats, I felt I just couldn't hack it. It's not as if I was in any danger of falling in - it was just that I couldn't apply full power to my stroke and as soon as we hit the choppy water, I couldn't stay with the bunch.

Frustrating!

Rob

Currently Think Evo II, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others I can't remember!

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5 years 9 months ago #10206 by Dicko
After paddling a red7 pro, then going back to a Think Legend, I paddled a Vault then bought it the next day. I just felt I couldn't fall out of the thing.
My other boats were great boats for my local conditions and I couldn't have picked better boats, but everytime I entered a race it was sideshore and my local conditions just don't produce sideshore conditions.Time in the boat in appropriate conditions.
The Vault has made paddling fun again. Conditions that used to worry me aren't an issue anymore and as you get older you have to be mindful of your limits. I can paddle the Vault almost as fast on the flat over a 9km course, maybe a minute slower (but that was 4 years ago when I was lighter and fitter) as my red 7.
The surf rudder makes the vault a dream to surf in small to moderate downwind and has stopped the boat wandering on the flat.
So I think the step back has meant I'm fractionally slower on the flat, about the same speed downwind, quicker in the chop, more inclined to paddle when it's lumpy. This boat will extend my ability to paddle for a few more years and has made paddling fun again.

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5 years 9 months ago #10208 by Gavin Gottschalk
Rob
I'm not sure I get the 'frustration' part. More like 'revelation'! In the SF you're fast, stable, super-competitive (based on that Millers race where you came almost 6th..) and you're having fun.
Why would you still paddle the Elite?
Gavin

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5 years 9 months ago #10209 by Madpaddler75
Hi Rob,
I am looking forward to your results on the Vault compared to the Swordfish and Sport. These are the three boats I am currently choosing between.

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #10212 by tony h
Rob I am enjoying your practical experiences with the SPORT, VAULT & SF!
I have owned all 3 of these boats & liked them for different reasons.
Currently paddle the vault as I could never get comfortable in the SF seat.
Owned 3 v10 sports but ultimately found all seat options too big.
Vault is very comfortable for my butt & the snugness allows one to feel connected to the boat. It is easy to control & seems to love downwind conditions.
Ultimately it comes down to trying all those options you considering - so 'mad paddler' make sure you try them all out to see what suits you & your conditions!
Agree with Rob, if epic brought out an updated V10sport with a snug v12 seat & catch assisting cut aways on the deck it would be a real strong competitor in this class for us who don't suit fenn seats.
Also agree with a lot on the forum topic, that I am happy to leave behind my days of struggling in elite boats in the ocean!!

ski's in last 10yrs:
- Nelo 560L
- Epic: 1st/2ndG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8
- Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G
- Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G
- Carbonology: vault, atom, flash
- Also: hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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5 years 9 months ago #10215 by robin.mousley

I'm not sure I get the 'frustration' part. More like 'revelation'! In the SF you're fast, stable, super-competitive (based on that Millers race where you came almost 6th..) and you're having fun.
Why would you still paddle the Elite?


You're right but...

It's partly that ego thing ("I'm a hot doggie who can paddle the fastest boats") and partly the satisfaction I've had from paddling the Elite in the past in big, clean runs.

But as soon as I crack 44min on the SF (or Sport or Vault or...) on a Millers Run I have no doubt I'll change my mind!

Rob

Currently Think Evo II, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others I can't remember!

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5 years 9 months ago #10218 by Moll
Until the mind games start and you think "but if I just get the faster hull to work?" and the cycle begins again.

Current Quiver:
- Think Evo
- XT Double
- Popes Big Foot Assegai K1
- Wilderness systems Tarpon 160

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5 years 9 months ago #10223 by ts-d
I was on the flat water with the Spirit PRS. It has a "V"-hull and it was for me not quite easy to paddle, I was a little unfirm.
Do you have a relation, if the vault has a similar hull and balance feeling?

seakayaks (Francesconi Esplora, Lettman Polar, Valley Nordkapp Jubilee), Stellar SR

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5 years 9 months ago #10226 by gixer
I started on a Spirit PRS and found it VERY stable, more so than a Fenn XT (my next boat). I have also paddle a Vault very briefly and it is very tippy compared to the PRS

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5 years 9 months ago #10238 by kajakman
Hi,

Does anyone know how the Fenn Swordfish compares to the Stellar SEL in terms of stability and also in speed?
I believe the SES model is faster but also less stable, but I am curious about a comparison to the SEL.

Thanks,

Tim

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5 years 9 months ago #10244 by MP7061
Hi Rob, I have been reading your posts with interest. I refer to the various extracts below regarding the surf rudder conversion for the Swordfish:

"The other thing that I noticed was that I battled to keep a straight line in the SF when slipping on the other boats. Some boats (like the Red7) stay absolutely straight; the SF's nose seems to dance about with every little side wave. Will this improve with the elliptical rudder? Not sure."

"Dale was on the SF and reported that the elliptical rudder had significantly improved steering and he was able to ride the wake at a fairly sharp angle with no risk of broaching."

"The elliptical rudder helps too, reducing the likelihood of broaching and making it easier to point the nose where you want to find the next dip"

Having read all this, can we safely say that the Swordfish performs better with an Eliptical Surf Rudder in general? Or are there any downsides to the bigger rudder.

If it is accepted that the overall performance is improved, I will order my new rudder from Carbonology straight away.

Thanks again for all your input - I am sure everyone here appreciates it!

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5 years 9 months ago #10245 by robin.mousley
For me there's no question, and no downside.

The only potential downside I can see is that some people might find that the boat a little tippier with the elliptical rudder. But I reckon you very quickly get used to that.

I put a US visitor to Cape Town, Gabe Newton on my Swordfish for a Millers Run and he loved the rudder and agreed that it made a huge difference to the handling.

Rob

Currently Think Evo II, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others I can't remember!

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #10248 by ts-d

gixer wrote: I started on a Spirit PRS and found it VERY stable, more so than a Fenn XT (my next boat). I have also paddle a Vault very briefly and it is very tippy compared to the PRS


Thank you again, Mark!

But I think, you can't say, the PRS is more stable at all. It's primary stability seems to be lower because the PRS-hull is more rounded than the hull of the Vault ... ? Rather the second stability is better ... ?
Par example I felt the V10 relatively stable, although its hull is only 43cm small, the PRS's 50cm!

seakayaks (Francesconi Esplora, Lettman Polar, Valley Nordkapp Jubilee), Stellar SR

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #10251 by Marieski
Interestingly, I find the PRS more unstable now than I did when it was my first ski. It is a bit unpredictable. Also interestingly, I had a couple of friends try out my skis today. They are occasional ocean kayak paddlers who were curious about skis and had no preconceptions. They tried the PRS, the Horizon, the Swordfish and the Stellar SES. They found the Swordfish more stable than the Horizon,(!) probably feeling its strong and very predictable secondary stability. They also felt the PRS was less stable than both the Swordy and the Horizon. They found the SES a handful, but enjoyed it.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7
The following user(s) said Thank You: ts-d

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #10707 by ts-d
I was yesterday on the water with the PRS. Coud it be, thad the PRS has more a rounded hull, so that the primary stability is hardly noticeable, and the secondary stability is definite manifest?

The PRS hull isn't so accurate as a GRP-hull, little deformations caused by warmth and tension. Sometimes I felt as if the hull would a bit flap and flatter in itself ... ???

The PRS has two storage compartments. If some load were inside these compartments, the PRS would lay deeper in the water and therefore calmer too? (my weight is 88kg)

I'm interested, if the VAULT, the Stellar Racer(SR) and the Swordfish have less rounded hulls below the bucket?
I'm not so often on the water, that I have much capabilities in balancing a tippy boat ... ;-((
Has anyone experience about that?

seakayaks (Francesconi Esplora, Lettman Polar, Valley Nordkapp Jubilee), Stellar SR

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5 years 7 months ago #11483 by duncangroenewald

[email protected] wrote:

Rightarmbad wrote: With a carbon V12 now listing up at $5800 in Australia, Epic are slowly pricing themselves out of the market.
I can get a carbon Fenn Elite for $3200


Nothing slow about that. I spoke with Epic 'HQ' (Charleston) a while ago asking about this very issue (imminent move to Oz). They informed me that Epic Australia is autonomous to 'HQ' and set their own prices. I got my carbon v12 shipped from the US (new price $3,600.00) to Bermuda (landed US$5,100.00 - includes a whopping 22.25% import duty and shipping costs). To pay $5,8k is preposterous. China is a lot closer to Aus than to the US so how can the US ski be cheaper? Perth is on the same time zone as Shanghai!

In the absence of any (reasonable) explanation by Epic Aus I reckon you guys are getting shafted.

Yep it's called gouging !

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