V10 Leach attachment point

8 years 3 months ago #10726 by brandt71
I was after a product that could be retro fitted to the boat.

I currently have a leg and paddle leash attached to the velcro single foot strap and its all to confusing when I come out. I think there is benefit in having a point closer to the seat and seperate from the foot strap, yet it should probably be at a point where there is some kind of reinforcement to the boat.

Any ideas?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10727 by robin.mousley
No ideas, but I just wanted to indicate my support - in my opinion ALL skis should have leash attachment points ala Epic/Think and a few others.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10736 by [email protected]
Anyone know if those attachments fitted in the ski (ie. v12/think etc) are reinforced - or could it rip out of the plug relatively easily?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10737 by kiwial
Johnson Outdoors have a product they call a wellnut, which is essentialy a rubber grommet with a flange at 1 end and a nut molded in to the other, effectively sealing and creating a relatively spread out contact point (especialy compared to a screw)
I have never used it for a leash attachment but would advise a webbing loop as opposed to plastic hardware as I can't think of anything that can be flush mounted. Not sure if Epic would advise retrofitting a leash attachment point as the area you choose to place it may not have enough strength to cope with the force applied to it in extreme conditions, I wouldn't do it if your ski is still in it's warranty period as I am sure the warranty would then become void

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago - 8 years 3 months ago #10739 by JonathanC
I have threaded a leash attachment line through the first hole (closest to me) in the track for the foot pedals. Figure the tracks have been installed to take a lot of load to deal with leg extension.

I started with the loop furthest away from me but go sick of the leash getting tangled in the pedals.

I just use a coiled DaKine surfing leg rope.

Find it incredible coming from a surfing and SUP paddling background that manufacturers don't provide leash attachment points.

Think I'd like to try a leash attached to the back of the pfd that attaches to the boat behind the seat, actually thought about making a plate that spanned the two tie down screws behind the seat and attaching to that. Surely those screws are reasonably well secured. Then I would have a quick release in the line, could risk trying to reach behind to unclip the line.

In anything but dead flat and zero wind I wouldn't dream of going out without a leash, had a few big swims in significant seas trying to hold a paddle and it's not fun.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10770 by arminius
I asked Epic the same question when I bought my V12 and they said I should fasten the leash to my foot strap. Not ideal as the leash is always rubbing against your feet.

Another perfect day in paradise. A bit of sun, a bit of rain and it's not even lunch time.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10773 by brandt71
This is the response I got from Jacqui Williams from Epic Australia

"Hi Brandt

Thank you for your enquiry.

All the boats now have an attachment in the hull of the boat in the centre of the seat-well just forward of the venturi which solves the problem of the muddle of straps when you get out of your boat.

I can’t offer a solution otherwise though in the interim."

So the search continue.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10774 by brandt71
Kiwial - is this what you had in mind with the Wellnut?

www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/Inst...asicMaintenance.html

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10780 by Rightarmbad
Seems Jackie paddles her ski backwards.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10791 by owenfromwales
In waves I`ve had footstraps (on a spec ski) ripped out when my leash was attached there. I tried something similar to the Wellnut mentioned, but same thing happened. As Didier Plouhinec has often pointed out, when a leash is anchored to the middle area of a boat and you lose it in surf, the boat will experience huge forces on the leash attachment. It may be sufficient off-shore, but you never know when that freak wave is gonna get you!
The answer has to be to attach to an end. Didier has experimented a lot with the front end, but I think the way forward is to attach it behind somewhere, so as to keep things simpler. (doesn`t the Epic V8 have a leash holder behind the seat?).
Anyway, I`ve got a few days off for Spring Break and one of the things on my list of things to do, is to try and make a strong leash attachment point.
I scoured the local hardware store and have scored two small pieces of plastic plumbing tubing, with lips on one end. My plan is to prepare them so that I can drill a hole near the rear end of the ski, through the sides and the stringer. I intend to epoxy the surfaces where they join and then insert a section of soft plastic hose through it. The idea being that the tube and epoxy will keep the water out, while the hard plastic plumbing piping will provide the strength and spread the load a little. The next step would be to run a rope through the hole and around the boat which could act as a carrying handle as well as the attachment for the leash. I`m hoping that I can place it high enough up and far enough back that it will have a minimal drag factor, hopefully only being under water when being pushed by a swell.
Anyhows, I`ll try to remember to take some photos as I go and then post the results on here.
Happy (safe) paddling all,
Owen

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago - 8 years 3 months ago #10798 by JonathanC
Good idea Owen, I had thought about drilling a hole through the narrow section of the boat beside and above the pedals and epoxying a carbon fibre tube through there. I've got heaps of short lengths of SUP paddle handle cut off's. The other plus I saw with that is that I could pass a fine bike lock through if I had to secure the ski doing car shuffles for downwinders.
But take your point about the end of the boat being more sensible from a drag perspective. Would you attach the leash to your pfd? It's a long way around to your leg! A leg rope dragging on a sup gives quite a bit of drag if it's in the water, if you do attach to your pfd you could put a coiled section using an existing coiled leg role to maintain tension and keep it all on top of the boat. You would probably have to extend it but this is a strong leg rope from Dakine that I like www.oceanaddicts.com.au/Dakine%20Sup%20L...oiled%20Ankle%202011
Be fascinated to hear how you go. Just a thought, I'd experiment with the PVC pipe and epoxy, don't think it will bond, if you would like a piece of carbon fibre tube PM me, happy to send you some - seems crazy from Oz but its light, would't cost much to post. Or go to a local shop selling SUP paddles and see what you can scrounge!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10800 by Kayaker Greg
Problem with having it at the back is entanglement with the rudder when dismounted.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10806 by isotopez
I prefer not to have any "leaches" attached to any part of my body!

But if we are talking about "leashes".. then I'm pretty sure the footboard would be your best best.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago - 8 years 3 months ago #10825 by robin.mousley
My 2c:

I use two leashes:
  • I secure my paddle to the ski with a light rope. I've found it very useful on occasion to be able to let go of the paddle eg when helping someone else with admin.
  • I wear a belt leash - belt to coiled plastic leash to boat. The primary reason to use it is to prevent losing the boat when offshore eg 2km offshore in a raging downwind.

I'm a strong believer in not being attached to the boat when in surf near the shore - I've been injured (wrenched knee) when using a leg leash and I know of other guys who've been more seriously damaged eg dislocated knee/hip/bashed head. So I usually (always) pop the quick release on my belt leash when I approach shore. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not bothered about having a super-strong leash point because I don't think I'll find myself in a situation where I'd want the leash to be exerting massive forces on the boat... In surf I'd just let it go anyway. I just want the attachment to be strong enough to survive the moderate forces exerted by coming off the ski out at sea in strong winds (and waves - but the force is nothing like surf IMO). So the footplate works ok for me. I'll moderate my earlier comment above and rather say that for me a leash anchor point is a nice to have, rather than must-have.

(I've been asked whether I get the two leashes tangled. The answer (8 years and several hundred downwinds of doing this) is no. I think the fact that the leashes are of different materials helps - the rope just doesn't get badly tangled in the coiled leash.)

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10828 by owenfromwales
@Jonathan, cheers for the advice, I hadn`t thought of that one. I`ll give a trial run first. Also for the offer of carbon tubing. It made me think of another source - carbon seat posts or fork steerers from bikes.
I`m hoping it`ll be sunny tomorrow so I can make a start on it!...

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10830 by Rightarmbad
Do you have a picture of the belt you use Rob?

I want to try a stretchy rearward mount equalised to all four of the rear bungies.

I so hate the leg leash in the footwell.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10843 by owenfromwales
So Rob, following your comments here and on other threads, am I right in thinking that over the last two months you`ve changed your outlook? Previously it seems you were all up for the fastest ski that you could safely paddle a Millers in. Now I get the feeling that you`d like a Swordy for downwind, an elite ski for flat water and perhaps even a spec ski for playing in the surf...(does your wife read these posts? ;) )
Leash anchor point on my old speccy is done, just waiting for the epoxy to cure and then hopefully I can try it out tomorrow morning. Following that I`ll try and get the photos up on here.

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10845 by robin.mousley
@RAB - sure I'll take a pic of the setup. But it's just a belt with a stainless steel ring on the front. The coiled leash has a kite-surfing style quick release clip (one yank and it's off).

@OFW - yep, I'm convinced. Intermediate skis for me... Currently loving the Genius Blu... Paddled the Swordfish again on a Millers on Friday; the Blu in massive conditions on Saturday... I'm faster in extreme conditions on the intermediate boats.

I hardly ever paddle on absolutely flat water - and I'm pretty sure that even in very mild chop I'm as fast on the Blu as I am on my Elite. And the less I paddle the Elite, the less competent I am on it... Still, I need to give it another go one of these days so that I can decide whether to let it go or not - it's too expensive and too nice a boat for it to languish in my carport!

As for surf - we don't really get much surf here in Cape Town so I can't justify another boat for that!!!!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10846 by robin.mousley
(Knysna just sent me their P40 to try. They reckon it's faster than the Blu, and more stable than the Mako Elite... can't wait.)

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 3 months ago #10933 by owenfromwales
Ok, so the diy has been completed and the leash anchor point looks alright. I`ve been out a few times, although haven`t had the chance to lose it in breaking surf to see how it really works and handles the stresses.
The first time out I put two coiled leashes together and secured it on my thigh, but it bowed too much and if in the water, the coiled leashes really drag. Also I found when getting on it often tangled in the rudder. I realised to solve the problem I needed the leash to be taughter and higher. At the time I wrapped it around myself and put the strap on the leash, which worked ok, albeit not the best solution.
Next day I changed one of the coiled leashes (the back one) out for a traditional surfing leash. I also tightened up some of the rope sections and tried bringing it across the front of my body, from my right, to wrap the strap around my left thigh. This worked better than the previous day, although I thinking Rob`s suggestion of a belt could be the way forward. I wanted to put it somewhere on my PFD, but as yet there was nowhere strong enough. So next plan is to create a strong anchor point on the PFD, maybe a steel ring held on securely by webbing?
I took a bunch of photos of the leash anchorpoint construction on the ski and placed them on my facebook, so drop me a line if you`d like to see them.
[attachment:1]CIMG6244.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment:2]CIMG6237.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment:3]CIMG6195.JPG[/attachment]

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics

Paddlehead's Avatar

V10 Carrying handle (4 Posts)

1 day 1 hour ago

Boat length - interesting analysis (1 Posts)

1 day 10 hours ago

Think Six - aim of design? (16 Posts)

2 days 22 hours ago
Protected by R Antispam