Soft spot on new v10 ultra

7 years 6 days ago - 6 years 6 months ago #17461 by 1xsculler
In the US Epics cost only very slightly more.

I am also a huge fan of Stellars, can't say enough good about Stellars and their dedication to customer satisfaction, but I have nothing negative to say about Epics either. After reading all of the posts on this topic I don't think I would order an Epic, or any other ski, and just assume it would be a perfect hull. I'd want to go over it very, very carefully before I'd lay my final payment down. If it wasn't totally correct with no factory, dealer or previous repairs I'd wait for another one or expect a substantial discount and do the repair myself knowing I was gambling. Taking that chance I wouldn't expect the dealer to honor any future warranty issues.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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7 years 6 days ago - 5 years 4 months ago #17462 by tony h
Greetings Dave

Agree with you that RAB deserves some credit for disclosing this colossal error of misplaced blame.

Regarding - epic fanboy statement etc:

I have bought 4 stellar ski's & had delamination issues with the carbon one (repaired by stellar at my own cost) & leaking rudder post with another!
Am not bashing stellar as their ski's have some excellent design features & I was largely happy with them. Stellar provided great after sales service.

Similarly have seen 2 ski's soft spot issues with fenn - one ski replaced & one repaired by owner at own cost (had been carrying ski on his hip & ski developed significant soft spot after a few years). I like their ski's but can't tolerate the seat for long (my idiosyncrasy). Have personally owned 3 & think they make the best value for money carbon ski's among the international brands.

My paddling partner has a think evo 2 that has numerous soft spots & that has been replaced with a new ski as a warranty claim. Have happily owned 1 think ski.

Currently I paddle a range of epics, but do believe I would consider an alternate brand if a model appealed to me. My 8 epics have been largely trouble free except for the 2 I broke in the surf. I don't particularly like the carbon epic layup as they seem to have pin hole leaking issues with the gelcoat free construction, black gets very hot & marked up, too expensive.
The ultra layup appears to have improved. My favourite layup for ocean & durability is the performance layup, but have to accept a heavier boat. I am currently really enjoying my v14 / new v10 / double v10.

5 Carbonology ski's were also good altho' 2 split seams with being tide down on roof racks. I did break one in the surf. They also had great after sales service.

The best overall quality ski I have had was an Australian built carbon ocean ski - Stealth - but my balance was too poor to enjoy it in the ocean.

Perhaps we shouldn't use this forum to abuse each other or brands, that clearly will have no future if they produce poor quality ski's or after sales service.

I have confronted RAB on this forum as I felt embarrassed, as a local from his area, that he misrepresented himself & his skills excessively on this forum! His credibility has been questioned by many along the way - www.cartercapner.com.au/blog/selective-s...or-duplicitous-duck/

Best wishes Dave :-)

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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7 years 6 days ago - 7 years 6 days ago #17463 by Kayaker Greg
Hey Tony, this is interesting as on the NZ, China, USA Stellar websites they all have the same warranty stated:

Manufacturers Limited Warranty
● 2 year limited warranty against defects in the materials and workmanship in the hull and assembly of
Stellar Kayaks and Surf Skis.
● 1 year limited warranty against defects and assembly to parts and accessories
● The warranty is only valid to the original customer
● It is upto Stellar Kayaks to determine whether to repair or replace any defective parts.
● 1 year limited warranty against delamination of honeycomb cored boats.

Exclusions to the Limited Warranty

● Normal wear and discoloration
● Damage from misuse or abbuse from hitting objects and improper maintenance
● Damage from extreme weather or environmental conditions
● Damage caused from storing the boat outside
● Damage from improper support of the kayak during transportation or storage
● Damage caused by any alterations to the boat and or original parts
● Damage caused to the boats in "surf"
● Any boat designated as "demo"
● Kayaks used for commercial or rental purposes

Original invoice is the proof of purchase for your warranty claim - without it,Stellar Kayaks reserves the right to determine whether the boat is covered under warranty

Now in light of you having to pay for your own repairs on your Stellar, I notice that this warranty is missing from the Australian Stellar website. What is going on over there?
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7 years 6 days ago #17464 by davewilson
I believe we should discuss irks with boat warranty in this forum without getting personal yes. It is part of the buyer decision is price, suitability for intended purpose, and after sales service. It should always be objective however. I have some one eyed epic fanboy mates that wouldn't test another boat, they love them. Me I am after the best value elements in design service warranty craftsmanship price etc and will test anything to prop up my very average paddling ability and resource allocation. At the moment the stellar ses fills the gap. Weighing in those elements the new carbon v10 is very appealing but again why 1000 more expensive than anything else with all these warranty questions?
And yes stellar gave me a completely new boat whenI rejected the first one cause of a minor blemish (andy @paddles) sunshine cost nice work boys
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7 years 6 days ago #17465 by 1xsculler
In the US a carbon Epic costs about the same as a carbon Stellar.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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7 years 6 days ago #17470 by Love2ski
As has been stated before all skis are expensive in Australia. But everything is expensive in Australia. We consistently pay more for everything. This is a consequence of our economy and standard of living.

We have a retail business and I can confidently say that no surfski retailer would be getting fabulously rich selling skis. This is despite the growth in the industry.

Why are epics more expensive in Australia? The answer is that the skis are priced at what the market is willing to pay. Epic is a dominant brand in this country and is held in very high regard by consumers. They have done a great job of establishing a strong presence at the grass roots races and have built a great brand.

In my case I paddled a fenn. To be honest when I went to upgrade to the next level I didnt want an epic because of the higher cost.

I tested all manner of skis. I was surprised to find that I liked the epic v10 the most. I liked that the ski was very well thought out, and had numerous improvements over the fenn design which hasn't changed to much. For example I hated the way my leg leash got tangled around my legs on the fenn. Epic have fixed this. I liked that epic are pushing innovation on the bailer.

In the end I was happy to pay more for the epic. As a consequence for me the epic is worth A$4700. I am also not alone because every shipment of the v10 has been presold before it arrives, so it seems others value it the same.

My only concern is the soft spot. It has only been a couple of days but I know that epic are already looking at it. I am confident that it will be sorted one way or another and I will get many years of enjoyment from the v10.
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7 years 6 days ago #17471 by Love2ski
I had a call from the retailer today. He indicated that he and epic have decided to replace the ski. He indicated that the size of the delamination would have required a big impact to do the damage, and the hull is without any marks. As a result it has been accepted as a manufacturing problem.

The retailer is prokayaks run by Matt blundell. Matt was not aware of these posts before he solved the problem, so I am very satisfied with the service. I took the ski to them on Saturday morning and by Monday morning they had it assessed and approved for replacement.

I am happy to say that my experience with epics after sales service in Australia has been excellent.

What I have learnt from these posts is that very light skis will always run the risk of manufacturing problems. For me I will check the next new boat I get carefully to ensure integrity.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
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7 years 6 days ago #17472 by davewilson
Well done Great result.

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7 years 6 days ago #17473 by Simon Haywood
Love2ski - Great News!

Well done to Prokayaks, Matt Blundell - Great support from Epic Australia too...

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!

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7 years 6 days ago #17474 by Kayaker Greg
Awesome stuff, that's the kind of service we should all expect when things go wrong, glad they came to the party on this one.

Happy paddles.

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7 years 5 days ago #17480 by 1xsculler
fortunately, these defects seem to be few and far between. Importers and dealers should disclose if any repairs have been done by the factory, importer or dealer so the end purchaser can make their buying decision with all of the facts about a particular hull. From the posts on this topic it sounds like the industry is doing the best they can to keep everybody happy. We have a responsibility to be honest and fair with them.

One other thing I really appreciated about my Stellar buying experience (Janet at Mississippi Kayaks does the same) is they told me the exact weights of the skis they had in stock or knew were arriving and they were very accurate. When you pay about $500 for each # lighter I'd be ill if I ordered an Epic Elite, or any other brand of carbon ski, and it came in over weight.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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7 years 5 days ago - 7 years 5 days ago #17481 by ccchappell
Yes, Nelo has a cool web based lookup tool where you can input the serial number and they will give you the weight of the boat at shipping. .You can scan the barcode off the boat with a smartphone and will go right to this link, or just input serial number manually. Here is the link:
Nelo Boat ID Lookup

Works great if looking for a new or used Nelo, just get the serial number and lookup weight and verify construction as well.

Chris
Here is the registration from one of my boats:
Attachments:
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7 years 4 days ago - 7 years 4 days ago #17487 by Grumpytex
Had my new V10 ultra for a week and loving it!! Great service from Tassie Epic Rep, great finish, just an awesome boat to paddle. Having tested lots of boats we are lucky to have such a great selection of brands and craft in Australia. I tested lots of boats and simply based my decision on what boat suited my bum and ability the best. Great service and product from Epic.

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6 years 6 months ago #19541 by Craig Elliott
Look guys, in this age of superlight weight ski's and advanced composites all brands can have the odd issue. Soft spots or delamination normally occurs when areas don't have the correct glass to resin ratio.

Like your car after a crash it can be fixed (Unlikely to every be quite as good as the same ski without a repair). In some cases as access can be difficult, the ski is likely to weigh a little more but if repaired correctly could provide no significant long term issues. However in my mind this is a factory second. (Normally reduced price/some goodies thrown in for free etc.)
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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #19546 by 1xsculler
I have successfully repaired several soft spot defects (the largest and softest was about 22cm x 9cm) adding an imperceptible amount of weight and ending up with them nearly undetectable. If you can get a new boat or get the dealer to repair it for little cost and very little increase in weight that may be your best bet. If it has to be shipped for a $1000 round trip your dealer may work with you. I decided to ask my dealer, whose brand and name shall remain confidential, for a price reduction and void the warranty because I like DIY projects and I was willing to gamble that I could repair it.
If you're interested in how I did it please describe the defect and send a photo of it This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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