Topic-icon Hairline Cracks in Brand New Surfski

3 weeks 1 day ago #30234 by HangTen
I recently purchased a new Epic surfski in Club layup. Took it for a spin for the first time on flat and briefly through 1 foot chop. While wiping it down I noticed some fine hairline cracks on either side wall near the front of the bucket. Don't know if they were there at delivery because they are very fine. Boat was transported on Goodboy V-bars.

Is this typical of the layup or a manufacturing defect I should try to warranty out? Haven't had opportunity to meet up with the local dealer yet, so any advice/info is appreciated. Thanks.

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3 weeks 1 day ago - 3 weeks 15 hours ago #30235 by AR_convert
Back in around 2010 I had the same thing on a club spec V10 L within a few months of buying it.

I believe it's just the gel coat cracking with movement, not the actual structure of the boat.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Supersonic K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)
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3 weeks 1 day ago #30236 by HangTen
Thanks for the response. So in your opinion is there no cause for concern? How long did you have your 10L after you encountered the hairline cracks? I'm assuming in your case it did not worsen into something structural or did you sell it soon thereafter? Is that part of the reason it seems you didn't return to Epic skis. Also, how heavily did you use it?

Sorry for the million questions. I can imagine the gelcoat degrading after a couple years, or even in a couple months if I just paddle it really hard or especially if it takes a couple knocks, but finding cracks after paddling it only once is a little disconcerting.

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3 weeks 1 day ago #30238 by AR_convert
Im hoping Ranga can comment as he's probably seen it and can explain the issue better.

I only had the ski 9 months before upgrading and don't know if it got any worse with time.
I was paddling it 3-4 times a week and lots of ocean paddling at the time.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Supersonic K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)
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3 weeks 1 day ago #30240 by HangTen
I appreciate the information and the prompt response! Is Ranga the person you sold the 10L to?

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3 weeks 16 hours ago #30241 by AR_convert
Ranga is a composites repairer and is very knowledgeable on ski contruction/layups.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Supersonic K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)
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3 weeks 15 hours ago #30242 by Ranga
It is not normal to have hairline cracks in a new ski.

They did have a small issue many years ago when they first made the Club construction. They used the same gelcoat as the other sandwich construction epoxy skis but found the gelcoat was too stiff for the more flexible fiberglass polyester construction, hence with flexing you would get hairline cracks at certain areas.

Epic should have no problem having a look at it and either repairing or replacing the ski. Obviously they will have to try ascertain if there was any abuse to cause the issue or if it is a factory fault. They are usually one of the best when it comes to these sort of warranty issues.
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3 weeks 14 hours ago #30243 by HangTen
Ranga, I appreciate the prompt response and all the information!

I will have the local dealer/Epic take a look and see what they say. The issue as you described makes sense; I imagine they don't get too many orders for club layups these days(I noticed they no longer list the layup on their site, not sure if there is any chicken or egg causative relation) so even if they had resolved it in the past, I imagine it's possible the factory applied the same gelcoat used for the stiffer layups again on my "one off" order boat.

Would repair consist of removing all the gelcoat and reapplying or just patching up that spot; the consideration being that if they repair that spot would other areas also crack later from the differential flexing?

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3 weeks 13 hours ago #30244 by Ranga
No, that is unlikely they would use the same gelcoat, not the way they operate.

As for repairs, you would secure the area with a composite repair properly and then finish off with gelcoat. No point in replacing the gelcoat if the underlying substrate is flexing causing the cracks.
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3 weeks 12 hours ago #30245 by HangTen
I appreciate your patiently fielding my many question. Apologies if I'm being obtuse, but if the underlying substrate is intrinsically too flexible because of the nature of the fiber/polyester resin, wouldn't repairing only in that spot leave the rest of the ski to continue to flex and crack? Or is it that this particular ski may be flexing more than the usual parameters in just that spot?

Also, when you refer to composite do you mean fiberglass or would you need carbon to stiffen it up?

Thanks in advance!

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3 weeks 6 hours ago #30246 by RichardCampbell

AR_convert wrote: Ranga is a composites repairer and is very knowledgeable on ski contruction/layups.


Hi Ranga
A quick question on Fenn Surf ski's (Elite S), If i wanted to put in a leg leash attachment point in the footwell, Is the best spot just as the footwell starts to go up towards the leg hump. When i tap in that area it feels really hard.
Any information would help greatly.
Thanks
Richard Campbell

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3 weeks 6 hours ago #30247 by Ranga
All skis are hand made, there might be a flaw in that area. Usually there will be more cracks if it was inherently soft. These skis have been made for over 10 years so there is nothing inherently wrong with the construction, I even used the same Club V10 Sport for over 2 years, and yes it had a few hairline cracks over the years but then I did go through surf and big conditions. It however did not leak at all.

As for a leash attachment on a Fenn. That is a no-no. Unless you are going to reinforce the area of mounting quite substantially with a plate on the inside I would not try. The laminate is less than 3mm thick. Your best bet is to tie it onto the rail for the foot plate, they are attached with plates on the inside. Just loop through one of the holes in the rail.
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3 weeks 4 hours ago - 3 weeks 4 hours ago #30248 by RichardCampbell

Ranga wrote: As for a leash attachment on a Fenn. That is a no-no. Unless you are going to reinforce the area of mounting quite substantially with a plate on the inside I would not try. The laminate is less than 3mm thick. Your best bet is to tie it onto the rail for the foot plate, they are attached with plates on the inside. Just loop through one of the holes in the rail.


Hi Ranga
Thanks for the information, I have my leash tied around the mounting bracket between the slide on the footplate. Where this is one is attached
Thanks again
Richard
Attachments:

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3 weeks 42 minutes ago #30250 by HangTen
Ranga,
Thanks for the prompt response!

Regarding the Fenn Elite S, any idea if/when Fenn will be putting stock dedicated leash attachment points in the Elite S? I've noticed they started putting it in their latest S models including the Swordfish S and even the Elite S double, but as far as I know not the Elite S.

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3 weeks 15 minutes ago #30251 by Cerca Trova
A few years back I bought a new V10 Sport in Ultra lay up. About 2 weeks later I found sound hairline cracks and some soft spots on the bottom of the hull slightly forward of the foot brace. I sent Greg Barton a picture of it, and the 500.00 repair bill. I also stated that I could have possibly done it while loading, yet I didn't think so.
I said I did not expect Epic to pay the full bill, yet I would be very happy if he paid 50% of it. Within a week I got a check for the full amount. Needless to say I was stunned. I have bought other brands since then, though I do have a V8 Pro, and the new V11 coming in very soon.
Talking about customer service, are you kidding me!

Terry

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2 weeks 15 hours ago - 2 weeks 15 hours ago #30276 by HangTen

Cerca Trova wrote: A few years back I bought a new V10 Sport in Ultra lay up. About 2 weeks later I found sound hairline cracks and some soft spots on the bottom of the hull slightly forward of the foot brace. I sent Greg Barton a picture of it, and the 500.00 repair bill. I also stated that I could have possibly done it while loading, yet I didn't think so.
I said I did not expect Epic to pay the full bill, yet I would be very happy if he paid 50% of it. Within a week I got a check for the full amount. Needless to say I was stunned. I have bought other brands since then, though I do have a V8 Pro, and the new V11 coming in very soon.
Talking about customer service, are you kidding me!

Terry


Cerca, What's Greg Barton's contact info? I can't say my experience with Epic customer service has been positive thus far. Below are pictures of the hairline cracks on either side. Is this the typical quality of new Epic skis? Am I being overly neurotic/would most people accept it on a new ski?
Attachments:

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2 weeks 9 hours ago #30283 by HangTen
Richard,
If you like your brother's Elite S you should get one for yourself. I got confirmation from Fenn that the Elite S's all have stock built-in leash attachment point, so you shouldn't have to deal with modding it out.

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2 weeks 7 hours ago #30285 by RichardCampbell

HangTen wrote: Richard,
If you like your brother's Elite S you should get one for yourself. I got confirmation from Fenn that the Elite S's all have stock built-in leash attachment point, so you shouldn't have to deal with modding it out.


Hi HangTen
I have purchased a 2017, Elite S, And unless the 2018 model has a leash point. Or they have the reinforcement plate installed that you can screw one too. Mine has no dedicated point. So I have attached the leash around the footboard like Ranga has suggested.
Thanks
Richard

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2 weeks 1 hour ago #30287 by Cerca Trova
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Having received dozens of skis from different manufacturers I can say I have never seen anything like this. The question is what caused this, and who is responsible. Is it possible it was done while transporting? Do you strap both ends down? I use V racks and I never put a load on the ends as the ski needs to flex.

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1 week 6 days ago #30291 by HangTen

Cerca Trova wrote: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Having received dozens of skis from different manufacturers I can say I have never seen anything like this. The question is what caused this, and who is responsible. Is it possible it was done while transporting? Do you strap both ends down? I use V racks and I never put a load on the ends as the ski needs to flex.


Ahahaha, I thought you had Greg Barton's direct contact info. I had already emailed them at that email address and while the final verdict is still out, so far have been pretty disappointed in the response and a far cry from the rave reviews(yours and others) of their customer service. They wrote, "None of the issues noted appear in any way structural, and I do not believe that they will, in any way, affect the performance or longevity of your ski and paddle. I have however reached out to our technical stars and will revert once I have their replies."

I've only transported it myself 5 miles from pickup to the point at which I noticed the damage(14 miles total since then to show the local dealer), low speed over local roads, on Goodboy Vbars(awesome product, customer service, and good guy) with just the elastic bungees, no need for end ties or hard straps on local roads; if I took a boat on the highway I would throw on some straps but mostly just for redundancy.

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